About a week ago I setup Ubuntu as my primary OS on an old machine. It is my first time trying a unix based OS (previously windows). It has been ok, but it seems like every time I try to install something I run into problems. The app has the wrong permissions or I don’t have the right packages or I need to change port settings ect… I was expecting a learning curve but I wanted to know if this is something I should expect to be a long term issue or if I will aquire the skills to side step stuff like this over time?
I can only recommend you to look into using Flatpak to install graphical applications. It avoids the whole dependency or permission issues because it ships apps in their own well tested little sandbox. From a end user perspective its somewhat similar to how applications are bundled on macOS.
That’s what I use with Debian. Rock solid OS, latest Apps without polluting it with Flatpak.
Exactly. Trying to install the latest version of a bunch of apps on a base like Debian is bound to give you dependency issues if you try to install the native version.
Yes but unlike Ubuntu, Debian is true open-source, true freedom and rock solid stability for a base system. We can just use it as a base system and add whatever app via Flatpak.
While I agree, definitely you need Flatseal to change permissions at times.
If there is a dependency problem in the upstream packages, then there is a bug in Ubuntu. This doesn’t happen often, and isn’t a good reason to go to Flatpak by itself. A bug should be filed upstream and it’ll likely get fixed quickly.
There is likely no bug they are just confused. Simple tools help.
You’re recommending Flatpak for users that are confused by packages?
Absolutely. No worry of dependencies, lower risk of harming system accidentally, more reproducible environment likely to work, less distribution specific details.
It is excellent for new users.
If the package manager leaves you with broken dependencies, a broken system, or a system that “doesn’t work,” then there are significant bugs in how the distro has packaged things. It happens, but seldomly.
Package managers aren’t “hard.” There are GUIs where you can search and install packages, even. In my opinion, if you have a Linux user that has avoided learning how package managers work, then they’re skipping a core foundation of how to use their operating system.
When a user knows nothing they can do anything. The internet is so full of bad Linux advice.
They will install bad PPAs, run random binary installers, there are even guides that show how to convert other distributions packages to another. A new user doesn’t understand why any of this is bad, they just did the first google result.
How are you installing apps?
Can you give an example of the issues you had with a specific app?
Last night I installed Sonarr through the built in snap store. It seemed to go well but when I tried to add a series it lacked the permissions to make the required directory. I am going to try to uninstall it and do it manually through the terminal as root unless someone can suggest a better way.
Well, that’s an example of something that actually takes some knowledge to run. Sonarr is not a native linux app, and is really meant to be run on a server by somebody who already knows what they are doing with it. Then there’s the issues with snap itself. On my plex server I manually installed sonarr and its dependencies and made my own systemd init file. Once running, updating through the webui seems to work ok, but I tend to use ansible to maintain everything.
This doesn’t seem like normal behaviour at all. I would try a reinstall or another distro like Linux Mint and see if it persists. I doubt it will.
The other comments in here will probably be confusing to a new user. Your graphical package manager in a user-friendly distro like Ubuntu should just work, and if it doesn’t, there is a problem with the install.
I second this. It doesn’t sound right. Make sure you have downloaded from the official Ubuntu website and make a new usb and reinstall Ubuntu. It shouldn’t do that.
There are many ways to install software on linux. Usually the distribution package manager will install things flawlessly with no extra work.
FlatPack, AppImage and Snap are all becoming common now. Most the time if you find yourself downloading a package from website, you might find it already on an app store.
Ubuntu’s/Gnome’s store app can look up ubuntu’s snap and traditional repository, and public flatpack.
When you’re setting up more advanced system tools, you will always have to tweak something. You’re taking on a system administrator role in your own organization.
Thanks for the advice/encouragement. Awesome username BTW.
Thanks, man (or woman hard to tell from text).
As a desktop user, I find the Linux experience to be one of constant improvement and learning. First time I tried Linux it was hard. Very hard. Now I know what I want. That doesn’t mean I don’t get to know new things every now and then. So, yes, over time you’ll acquire new skills and knowledge to deal with problems
That’s part of what I like about linux. It’s rarely someone else’s fault it doesn’t work. It might be their fault it’s difficult, but if I learn enough I can fix it
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Yes, it will get better over time. You are using an entirely new operating system. Things are different, but aren’t that hard to learn.
My big tip for installing Linux is to use the package managers when possible. Every distro comes with at least one package manager, which can install many pieces of software. On Ubuntu, there are two: snap and apt. (Yes, this is confusing. Canonical is trying to change the way they package software, and it has made their distro harder to use).
Also, what kind of software are you installing that requires different permissions or ports? If you’re trying to set up servers you many be better off with a different approach.
Try use Debian or Fedora Workstation… it’s better…
Debian is not really meant for end users, even less so for users who are new to Linux. Mint on the other hand is a Debian derivative that I’d recommend to beginners.
I’m still having flashbacks to previous Debian version and spending 4+ hours searching for packages that Debian decided to call differently, and compiling dependencies of dependencies to compile Emacs that wasn’t like 2 major versions out of date.
Recently I installed POPOS! and it comes with popshop app store. Its bit laggy especially on startup, but installations are like search -> press install button -> done. Its so freaking simple and intuitive
Im also new in desktop linux and still didnt decide what is my main OS, but POP OS made me not look further. Didnt try gaming yet tho
Windows does a lot of permission stuff under the hood. It’s why you can’t delete some folders even if you’re logged in as admin, and why deleting a Windows folder from an old drive is sometimes harder than just backing up and reformatting the entire thing.
Windows has a few modes of running applications: they can be run as your own user, as a system service user, or as a special account user. It’ll also provide many system service users access to your personal files. Your printer can access your browser history and that tool that makes your keyboard light up can read what you’ve emailed to your boss. Windows has become more strict over the years (breaking old software left, right and center) but there are still challenges to be solved.
Linux distros generally think that’s a bad approach. Your printer driver shouldn’t need to access your browsers history or password database. That’s just a potential flaw waiting to be exploited. So, when you run a service like Sonarr, Linux will create a special user for that, so that sonarr van access sonarr’s files and nothing else.
The security advantage should be obvious. You can disable that (edit the system service to run sonarr as your user, for example) or you can go full Windows and log in as root and change the system to make all files readable by all users by default. That’s not something Linux users would recommend, obviously, but it’s definitely an option.
As for installing packages, dependencies should be installed automatically. You should only be running into trouble with packages you’re missing if you’re not using a package manager, which is certainly possible but not for the faint of heart. Even Arch Linux users (famous for the I run Arch btw meme) have set up something called the AUR to make it easier to install random software nobody actually guarantees will work on your system.
I’m not sure what you’re running into in terms of ports. Linux doesn’t come with a firewall by default as far as I know, so your ports should be fine out of the box. You may have some application specific issues, but I don’t see why they should be different than on Windows.
Ir you could list every app you’ve had trouble with and what problems you’ve had to solve, we could go into your specific situation deeper. The truth is, outside of special Snap-related tomfoolery many people hate Ubuntu for, most Linux users should never need to mess with permissions.
I guess they have some selinux stuff implemented?
Ubuntu has apparmor but I’ve rarely run into that to be honest. My guess is either sandboxing or telling daemons to operate on directories created by the normal user account. It’s hard to tell what the problem is without more details.
How are you trying to install things? Use the graphical package manager or apt. Don’t just try to download things from wherever.
Also, maybe try Linux Mint (Cinnamon Edition) instead of Ubuntu. Things there “just work”, and the UI is more similar to what you are used to with windows.
I downloaded this from the graphical package manager
What did you download?
Sonarr
What happens when you try to start it?
It starts just fine. When I try to add a series to it, it shoot up an error that it cannot create the required directory. Even if I sudo the directory in manually it cannot write the files. I assume that it doesn’t have write privileges but I lack the skills to find the appropriate service and change it’s privileges.
Also, how are you starting it? I’m looking at the Arch package in the AUR (not your distro, but just looking), and I notice that it includes a .service file. This means that it would be started as a service, and not as a user, like you’re probably attempting to do.
What directory is it trying to write to? Can you show us the full error, preferably as text and not a screenshot?
It is trying to create a new directory. I think it is under root but I am not sure. I will recreate the next time I am on it and post. Thanks for the help
It looks like sonarr is not in the official Ubuntu mirrors. The website mentions adding a new repo to apt. Is this what you did, or something else?
I use Ubuntu and install the very little I use through the Snap store. My Linux PC is for gaming with steam.
I have downloaded the Steam deb package from the steam website and it seems to launch the install through the Snap store app when I click on it.
MakeMKV has an app.
TeamViewer had a deb package
Some of the tools I needed were in the snap store.I try to stick to the snap store if I can.
What were you trying to install?
I installed Sonarr. It was definitely through the graphical app manager
Ubuntu kinda sucks from my experience with it, but it will be a learning curve
You do learn to deal with those kinds of issues pretty quickly eventually but at least at the moment you’re realistically not going to have a completely seamless experience with desktop Linux for a while yet
You’re probably better off going with snaps/appimages/flatpaks than apt-get I think because they come with all their dependencies
I guess thats “thw Ubuntu experience”. Ubuntu IS NOT general Linux. They do their own proprietary Snap thing, which may be liked by developers but is not the standard.
Flatpaks never have too little permissions, its more that they have too many.
Run unsnap from Github, its an awesome tool and actually makes Ubuntu usable
