• Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    101
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    I think a lot for the guys that follow these morons and buy into this culture did not have positive male role models growing up, thus turn to media for some guidance.

    This does not excuse their conduct or self-delusion, but does explain why it happens.

      • Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        28
        ·
        1 year ago

        Very much so, which makes it all that more sad.

        I’m in no way excusing their villanry, but most are so delusional that they won’t ever take a hard look at the way they are and wonder if they could be something else or if they need to change

      • zwekihoyy@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        1 year ago

        this doesn’t mean much tho, considering people aren’t ever born ‘villains’. they all are created by something traumatic.

        so sure, empathize all you want, but it doesn’t help anyone. simply enables it.

        • IanSomnia@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          9
          ·
          1 year ago

          Empathy doesn’t have to mean letting them do whatever they want. It’s the only path to reforming them. I’ve worked with a young kid with no dad in the process of going down this pipeline. You have to challenge them on what they think they’ve learned about being a man, but if you don’t try to understand how they feel they will just shut you out. Ultimately you can’t make someone believe something. So you either give up and label them a lost cause, or you actually try to reach them and convince them person to person.

        • PorkRollWobbly@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          I think it does help in that we can approach our ridicule of them from a constructive manner.

          “Your role models are taking advantage of you.”

          “At least I don’t fail to hide my insecurities behind toxic masculinity.”

          “You’re alone because you choose to be alone.”

        • can@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          I mainly feel bad with the young men who are not yet captured but are down that path. I’d like to think it couldn’t have happened to me but I had the luxery of going through that time of my life when that stuff wasn’t really around.

          Though actually I had 4chan at that time and I turned out mostly well adjusted so they’re not completely blame-free.

          • zwekihoyy@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            6
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            people seem to think if you’re not in support of them or their position, then you haven’t experienced the same things and been on the same path. I saw where I was going and specifically changed it.

            I’m still a depressed, alone, piece of shit, but I’m not a bigoted, fascist piece of shit.

    • southernbeaver@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      1 year ago

      What do you think they should have done differently? I am excusing their behaviour but I want to understand what should anyone with no positive male role model do other than turn to the internet?

      • Napain@lemmy.mlOP
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        16
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        well people can be both, victims of circumstance AND be accountable to their own agency that’s life its complicated and ambiguous. I bet like 20% of people with male socialization and no good role models haven’t become complete dicks

      • stillwater@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        1 year ago

        It’s not the fact that they’re on the internet, it’s the fact that being on the internet doesn’t inherently make them good.

        Of course a boy subconsciously looking for guidance will find these guys and feel inspired or compelled by them. But maturity is the concept of learning from experience and challenging your own understanding in order to be a more balanced and level-headed person tomorrow. You know, exactly what these guys try to stop.

        So the only thing these kids can do is embrace growing up, becoming mature, and finding role model figures that champion that instead of ones that peddle the arrested development that these charlatans do.

    • _bug0ut@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      I find it crazy that I didn’t really have any real male role models, but the media I turned to ended up being guys like Henry Rollins.

      The “finding myself” period of my life pre-dated the existence of this manosphere/shallow-ass-masculinity shit, but the archetype has been around for far longer and there were plenty of slimy douchebags to look up to. Sometimes I wonder what spared me.

  • ChiwaWithMujicanoHat@mujico.org
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    50
    ·
    1 year ago

    My kitchen YouTube feed randomly showed me a “Rachel Zegler criticism” video and I was curious so I put it while cooking.

    It was basically a 40 min rant where some YouTuber was showing her hypocrisy because she said Hollywood needs more representation from latinos even though she was acting on a movie as a puerto rican. The video could have been 2 minutes long but I noticed it was mostly the guy criticising every single word she’s said and telling you how to feel about it.

    I checked YouTube the next day and now it’s full of alt right channels, for context I mostly watch veritasium, audit the Audit, science podcasts, dw documentaries, kurzgesagt and some music videos, I rarely watch political stuff on that account and yet now I see Ben Shapiro, Piers Morgan, Andrew Tate, Steven Crowder and the likes, literally my whole front page was just them and my automatic queue would be increasingly alt right shit.

    I clicked on not interested and don’t recommend this channel and yet I constantly see the videos showing up in the front page.

    I think YouTube is heavily pushing this type of content, even if you try to show the algorithm that you are not interested. They probably see that it makes people get more engaged with the platform so they are okay with radicalizing everyone just for profit.

    • Who knew?@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      22
      ·
      1 year ago

      You got it. Alt right to Nazi pipeline = increased view time = increased ad revenue. Same with how Facebook ranked content that got people to give it an “angry” react 5x higher in the algorithm than a “like” at one point. Anger/hate drives engagement.

    • _bug0ut@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      1 year ago

      I actually got this solely in YouTube shorts, but without having viewed anything related to it. Every few Shorts I scroll through, I’m met with something plucked straight out of the alpha/sigma/HKV trashbin and I’m assuming it’s because I likely got demographic’d. It frankly kind of pushed me away from the whole feature - not much of value was lost since a lot of Shorts are just teaser trash that gives you a portion of a story designed to drive you to the channel.

      Oddly, my regular, non-Shorts recommendations are fine.

    • hinterlufer@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      1 year ago

      You might want to try deleting that video from your watch history. Idk if it actually does anything to the recommendations but definitely something to try.

    • foo@programming.dev
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      I think you tubes algorithm looks for things that are new to you and then loads you up on that. For example, I had an event that has caused my tinnitus to spike and I found a 10 hour video to listen to while I work that helps mask it. Now my entire fucking feed is overrun by different coloured noises and quack/chiropractors telling me to pull my ears to heal my tomorrow

    • jigsaw250@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      Youtube will add things here and there to find you something new to binge on to stay on their platform. If you watch something a little, you’ll be shown a couple similar videos. But if you watch a lot of that first video, you’ll be bombarded with similar content like you were.

      It’s made me have to watch in incognito first, just so it doesn’t screw up my Recommended.

    • winter@slrpnk.net
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Dalas, ¿verdad? Tiene el poder de hacer parecer razonables sus palabras para gente ignorante, aunque sean basura

  • db2@sopuli.xyz
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    41
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    1 year ago

    The funniest thing about Andrew Tate is he’s so obviously overcompensating for being gay. I mean funny weird, it would be funny ha ha if he weren’t also a manipulative kidnapping rapist and grifter.

      • blindbunny@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        20
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        1 year ago

        The way he invites smaller men over to look at him in his boxers and fawn over him. I’m bi so it’s kinda hot not gonna lie.

      • kingthrillgore@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        8
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        He did a video of him and some dude playing Chess in his undies.

        I play both sides of the fence, I have seen some hot femboy on femboy action, and I swear right hand to God that Andrew Tate video is the gayest thing I’ve ever seen. It’s gayer than 8 dudes blowing 9 dudes. I was ready to go back to women after seeing the THUMBNAIL of it. It’s that bad.

        Even now I’m having Akira flashbacks of this video and the damage it’s done to me and god knows who else. Also, they can’t play chess. Neither can I but he definitely can’t.

        And he’s a repulsive human being.

    • Hovenko@iusearchlinux.fyi
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Nope, the funniest is his absent chin being desperately covered by suboptimal … whatever grows on it.

  • UlyssesT [he/him]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    38
    arrow-down
    5
    ·
    1 year ago

    “Everything is transactional, especially relationships”

    “The reason feeeeemales don’t want to commit to transactions with High Value Men is feminism and wokeness” up-yours-woke-moralists

  • Blackmist@feddit.uk
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    27
    ·
    1 year ago

    It’s like Cosmo and their awful sex tips for women.

    Keep them single, they’ll keep coming back to you.

  • jherazob@beehaw.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    22
    arrow-down
    5
    ·
    1 year ago

    People only offer derision towards people who fall for this (which is absolutely reasonable), but only a few see it as the fucking tragedy it is, no one gives a fucking shit about young men and their issues or gives them support, who are then taken wholesale by THESE bastards and turned into incels and/or nazis, had young men had any support from decent people we might have less people on the side of the bastards

    • nudny ekscentryk@szmer.info
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      14
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      bullshit. hating the world is just the easy way out, admitting you yourself are wrong is simply harder.

    • Malta Soron@sopuli.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      13
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      I’ve stopped believing that. I think there’s plenty of support for them online; people like Mark Manson have been putting out great stuff for years. (His writings helped me through a lot of stuff.)

      I think the main problem is that improving yourself requires admitting that you were wrong about some things, and apparently that’s really hard to do for some people. Easier to blame it on the rest of society.

      • vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Usually if something is as easy for another person as it is for you, then they’ve been as successful in it as you have. That’s all I have to say about your readiness to judge others with that implication that you are better.

        Ah, actually visited that link of yours, clicked through one article and it does look good. The only catch is that I’m confident most people with such problems haven’t ever heard about this guy and his website.

        • Malta Soron@sopuli.xyz
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          Fair enough. I didn’t mean to say it was easy. Took me about eight years to realise I needed to work on myself, and then a few more to actually do so . Back then pick-up artists were still a major thing, so I learned and then had to unlearn all that bullshit.

          However, things won’t get better if we’re treating young men as poor, helpless victims of society and the YouTube algorithm, instead of treating them like, you know, men, and telling them to take responsibility for their lives and online habits. It’s just the same victim complex with a new narrative.

          One of my favourite movies/books is Fight Club, because it takes this societal dissatisfaction and tells you to get over it by working on yourself. You’re not a victim, because you still have the power to change yourself. (Of course, the whole descent into violent madness isn’t something to aspire.) I feel that notion is sorely absent in this discussion.

          • vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            Back then pick-up artists were still a major thing, so I learned and then had to unlearn all that bullshit.

            Oh. Thank dear god I never tried.

            However, things won’t get better if we’re treating young men as poor, helpless victims of society

            They are usually victims of their own parents, who may have too differing behavior from what is common average (say, example 1) both asexual and thus treating nonverbal communication as something not very hard or important, and thinking that you’ll just learn it, or, example 2) too sexual, like, sorry, one of the parents being an ex-escort and thus their child incorrectly measuring the signals sent, or, example 3) both parents having grown with their mother only or with little attention from their father, thus again not learning the skills of communication for men, one can imagine other examples).

            instead of treating them like, you know, men, and telling them to take responsibility for their lives and online habits

            Responsibility is fine for most, not knowing what to do is a different matter.

            You’re not a victim, because you still have the power to change yourself.

            That’s a philosophical question. You may have noticed that what you eat and how you exercise physically and what news you hear and what people tell you all affect very much what you think and how. So whether you can consciously change yourself to some intended end is, again, a question.

    • sculd@beehaw.org
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      There are PLENTY of people who cares about young men. Many of them are just in REAL LIFE not on the internet.

      Teachers and social workers at schools, classmates (yes, you can make friends with real people too.), FAMILY. Even if all that fails, many, many NGOs need more hands and would welcome any young men willing to volunteer. They just need to go there IN REAL LIFE.

    • socsa@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      As a young man, I found plenty of support in a variety of places. You just have to take a very small leap of faith and reject the asshole energy.

    • Katrisia@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      Some areas or fields have a difficult time reaching men, including young men, and it’s not because they are not wanted. Let’s take psychiatry, for example. Many people already believe psychiatry is nonsense; add to this the common idea that psychiatric treatment is for cowards—and that cowardice is mostly for women (because women can be many bad things, but men can’t)—, and that’s a recipe for men scoffing at the idea of visiting a psychiatrist (and a psychotherapist, by extension).

      I’ve also heard people complaining about a lack of role models, but there are excellent role models. I hope I am not wrong about them, but I admire Stephen Fry, John Oliver, Keanu Reeves, Bill Nye… I also like many small influencers. Some of them talk about being a man with great insight, such as @watchfulcoyote on TikTok.

      I cannot say with certainty how free these radicalized young men were to choose a better path than the one they are on, and it probably varies from case to case, but I know there were and are normal and decent people watching out for them.

  • Mothra@mander.xyz
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    16
    ·
    1 year ago

    Who are these two high value men (lol) next to Tate and the other one with the selfie?

  • kingthrillgore@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    12
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    With role models like this, This guy is a small life crisis away from “can you spare a crumb of pussy” to “does this rag smell like ether”

    • _bug0ut@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      1 year ago

      Sneako and his “I’m a little teapot” lookin ass with those goofy ass ears. Holding a dickhead like him or the Tates up as some sort of goal to strive towards is synonymous with “rock bottom.”

      I get it - like I understand the mechanism behind why some younger dudes become infatuated with these figures. It’s the same reason boomer housewives get into the Law of Attraction or why people who don’t have a single fucking clue think Trump is going to fix everything if he could just get one more term in office… but I don’t get it.

      • FIST_FILLET@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Holding a dickhead like him or the Tates up as some sort of goal to strive towards is synonymous with “rock bottom.”

        for real, have you seen the chin (or lack thereof) on tate? lmfao. might be hard to spot of course because he tries to hide it very desperately with his little prepubescent goblin beard

  • DessertStorms@kbin.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    35
    arrow-down
    28
    ·
    1 year ago

    No, these people were always sexist, that’s why it’s so easy to hook them on this bullshit.

    We are all socialised with misogyny (as well as cis-heteronormativity) literally from infancy (and those of us who are directly impacted sadly internalise them to a depressing degree), and that’s when we need to start fighting against it, not only once the misogynists turn violent (verbally as well as physically), it’s too late at that point (even if they can be deradicalized the damage they did is already done).