Please don’t flame me too bad, I understand that although privacy and libre software are important to many in the Linux community, my opinions may be outside the scope of consideration for some and I respect that.
Personally, conscientious consumerism and privacy are some of the primary reasons I use Linux. I prefer community>private business>corporate when I am choosing products and services.
-System76
About 8 years ago I purchased a laptop from System76, the customer service was incredible and the machine exceeded my expectations in build quality and performance.
Recently I’ve been in the market for a smaller machine, like a Thinkpad X1, StarBook 14 or System76 Lemur.
Last week, when I visited the System76 website they used Plausible’s open source analytics on the home page (which is a great alternative to Google’s proprietary hardware fingerprinting algorithm), but once I added the laptop to my cart to checkout, I noticed the third-party trackers, apis.google and ajax.googleapis load on the webpage. Google’s reCAPTCHA was also required to complete the purchase. Hell, even Discord has switched to hCaptcha at this point citing their laughable “Gamer Privacy First” policy.
IMHO, I find it hypocritical that System76 does so much great work disabling Intel’s IME and contributing to coreboot, but chooses to embed proprietary tracking software on their website when open source alternatives are readily available.
- Reaching out to System 76
After completing 14 reCAPTCHA’s I was finally able to get a dialogue with Stetson at System 76. He said that “System 76 takes user data privacy and security extremely seriously, but they would continue to use Google services.” His recommended solution was placing the order over the phone if I wasn’t comfortable having third-party tracking during checkout.
This is not a solution for me because I don’t want to do business with a company that monetizes user data for profit. In my experience, companies that monetize data (Alphabet, Meta, etc…) offer web services cheaper than competitors that don’t, in exchange for access to user data. So, if you’re getting a commercial service cheaper from a company that sells your user’s data, you’re also profiting from the sale by paying a lower premium for those services.
Personally, I do not think you’re taking user privacy “extremely” seriously if you’re running third party trackers and choosing reCAPTCHA (not a privacy respecting service) over hCaptcha on your website.
I really like System 76 and I want to support them with my next purchase, but presently I feel like they are saying one thing and doing another and choosing privacy respecting libre software some of the time when it suits their marketing, but proprietary anti-consumer tracking services when it’s more profitable.
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It’s not as simple as you think it is. First, we use Plausible instead instead of Google Analytics, so tracking data is not being given to Google. If the choice was purely up to System76’s web team, use of Google services wouldn’t be required. However, you’ll be hard pressed to find any online store that accepts online payments without a captcha service, because most payment processors require it. System76’s payment processor also requires it, and will not allow you to substitute your own solution or bypass that requirement. Same as said here: https://lemmy.world/comment/3137069
Customer services and other web-facing frontends are also a constant target of attacks, so a captcha service is required.
Stripe is one of the largest payment providers on the Internet, they recommend hCaptcha, not Alphabet’s reCAPTCHA in their docs, so it’s obviously a choice. Please don’t proclaim to be “Extremely concerned” with customer privacy and choose a service provided by a data harvesting advertising company to save money when a privacy preserving option is available.
they recommend hCaptcha, not Alphabet’s reCAPTCHA in their docs
From : https://stripe.com/docs/disputes/prevention/card-testing#captcha
Card testers often use automated scripts that can be blocked using a CAPTCHA. Google’s reCAPTCHA is often effective for blocking card testing.
Read that document a bit closer. They recommend Google reCAPTCHA.
Michael, thank you for responding, but Google’s reCAPTCHA isn’t only required for payment on your site, it’s required just to send a message for customer service or to contact sales as I have done both recently. There are plenty of payment provider’s that to not mandate Google services. Personally I enjoy a lot of Google services when I choose to use them, but being mandated to use Google, as my child is forced to do attending school makes me wonder we companies like System 76 perpetuate this trend of the government and private industry forcing people to use services instead of letting consumers make the choice themselves in the so-called “free market.”
Customer services and other web-facing frontends are a constant target of attacks, so a captcha service is required. This whole comment is hyperbole, honestly.
Purist, hard-line stuff like this will honestly just get you nowhere in 2023. I get where you’re coming from, but it’s simply not realistic. This is what browser extensions are for.
I don’t understand what’s not realistic about expecting from a company that markets itself as privacy focused to not add surveillance fascist services to their website. It’s not like they demand system76 to implement something crazy difficult. Quite the opposite, they just want them to not do something. That shit doesn’t add itself to a website. So just don’t fucking do it and you’re good. What’s unrealistic about that?
It is realistic. I don’t buy much online, but I very rarely had to fill out a captcha, or even load scripts for one.
Being a fatalist will get you some places I personally don’t want to go to.
hCAPTCHA, the CAPTCHA that allows special tokens distributed exclusively by Apple and Cloudflare to bypass checks for “suspicious” visitors? I’m not sure if that’s such an improvement. If you’ve already installed Privacy Pass or use Safari, perhaps, but you’re giving up a lot of control here.
hCAPTCHA may have an open source frontend, but the backend is still closed and hosted by Cloudflare. With Cloudflare’s inherent monitoring capabilities as the proxy service half the internet runs through, I’m not sure if either is a privacy improvement or a detriment.
I don’t think think there’s a single web store out there that still respects user privacy. I honestly think their phone based ordering process for the privacy conscious is an excellent solution and you simply won’t find a better one.
Want a privacy friendly alternative? Go to a physical store and pay with cash (assuming you can find a laptop that can run Coreboot or are willing to port it yourself). System76 is probably the next best thing, to be honest. Not even Purism can avoid the temptation of Javascript served by Google.
Many payment providers would want websites to implement CAPTCHA for blocking spam and fraud attempts.
I’m sorry, but you’re just going to have to walk to a store and pay in cash if you don’t want to have any data tracking done at all. Online you’ll often have to pick one or the other: data tracking, or flimsy security/data protection. The phone solution is appropriate in my humble opinion, but you’re welcome to hold your own views on your principles. If you’re hard set against a company tracking ANYBODY via 3rd parties to that level, then I bet you will be very hard-pressed to ever find a computer through an online marketplace from ANY company that will fit that bill perfectly and suits your other needs.
Many payment providers would want websites to implement CAPTCHA for blocking spam and fraud attempts.
This is why. They’re using Stripe, and they require it if you have any sort of carding attack, or other fraud attempts. They’ll disable your account otherwise. And, this isn’t just Stripe, I’ve encountered it with all payment providers I’ve implemented.
What a nothingburger. How do you people navigate day to day life?
It’s likely something out of their control. I imagine their payment processor either uses it, or requires the site to use it. Mostly to combat automated fraud.
You likely won’t find any site, that has online shopping, that doesn’t use some sort of way to gatekeep against this behavior, unless it’s crypto-based. And even then it likely still has something like that. Even if the site redirects to Paypal, you’re gonna face that.
Your approach simply isn’t realistic to the modern web. You can try uBlock, but blocking those connections likely will make the site ultimately not work for you.
You see, even Mozilla uses reCaptcha and other Google APIs. Companies that “fight for freedom” will only do the minimal. Still, I think is worthy to send an email do System 76 with this reclamation.
They just resell Chinese laptops anyway, or used to. I opted for a Framework laptop this time.
They are not “resold”. The laptops are custom-ordered and manufactured in Taiwan. The same as virtually every computer you buy. Taiwan would be very unhappy to see comments claiming they’re Chinese.
You’re worried about Google trackers on their website but you were gonna potentially buy a Lenovo Thinkpad? Lololol
