This meme is from 2004. History repeats itself.
It’s important to note that the real disparity may be even far worse.
OCHA-OPT (the committee gathering this data) is strict about verifying validity of Palestinian casualties, requiring two independent, verified and non-affiliated sources. Casualties in Israel, however, they trust the media at face value. They also exclude a lot of Palestinian casualties even when verified in certain situations. Example, and I quote them:
People who were killed or injured in conflict-related incidents that took place in Israel and did not involve residents of the oPt are also excluded.oPt (occupied Palestinian territories) are the areas that Israel does not directly oversee. So most of Israel is not oPt by their criteria.
Israel is notorious for restricting journalists reporting on Israeli crimes, and has murdered journalists countless of times, like last year the Christian Palestinian Shireen Abu Akleh reporting on the forced expulsion of Palestinians from Sheikh Jarrah (so not even in a war zone area). This causes many casualties to go unverified and thus undocumented.
And Israel has been caught lying before about its own casualties, like the 40 beheaded babies.
Take that as you will.
It isn’t anti-Semitism to criticize israel, it’s just noticing the obvious.
Upvote this to the front page so that lemmy world sees it.
Is this cartoon originally about the US invading the middle east? Looks like the twin towers in there.
Dafuq is this meme? civilians are civilians, regardless of the country religion or whatever the duck they’re born in.
Israel kills more civilians.
@matcha_addict
The issue here is similar to most of the land contest issues in the world: what historical period you use to determine land ownership. As an example: most of the current territory of Russia was once occupied by Mongolian tribes under the leadership of Chenghis Khan. So if that’s the frame of reference you use, Mongolia has legitimate rights to wage war to reclaim their land.I have a solution for you: why shouldn’t we live with Israelis in peace? Why can’t we have a Democratic state for all? Israel loses this “historical land” battle, but even if they didn’t, does that justify massacre? Palestinians have always advocated a state for all, but Israel never agrees.
@matcha_addict I agree with you. Historically Jews and Arabs that occupied this land are the same people with different religious beliefs. They are all Semites. They should be able to live together.
Globally speaking, the borders of counties are just arbitrarily drawn lines on the map. Lines, drawn by individual people who decided for the masses where they can and cannot have a home.
I believe, we as humans, should abolish borders of any kind.@matcha_addict But I’m afraid this idea has no traction. It’s only going to be possible if we as humanity realize that we are not alone in the universe and another species threatens us from outer space. I don’t know any other way that we can all unite as earthlings and realize the fallacy of carving up the world into spheres of influence for a few, mostly militaristic men.
But I’m afraid this idea has no traction.
But it’s supported by most Palestinians!
Take a look at this guy’s other Palestine Israel Post and decide if you wanna upvote this terrorist enjoyer.
there is no bigger terrorist than Israel.
both sides are stupid. youd think after all these years of fighting a compromise could be found, but NO, they just always fight. gives me the feeling that they dont want it any other way.
There’s many Palestinians in Israeli territory right now. If they were willing to compromise, they wouldn’t be brutalizing them weekly, gassing them in places of prayer and stripping away their rights.
I doubt that you will be swayed by facts, but just for the record: in 2000 Israel offered Hamas to become a fully sovereign nation on 100% of Gaza’s territory (and 95% of the West Bank) with East Jerusalem as their capital. Hamas declined. In 2005 Israel voluntarily disengaged from Gaza and enabled self-rule, hoping this would be a step towards peace. It wasn’t. In 2011 there was another offer for a “two states for two peoples” solution, Hamas once again rejected it.
None of this is surprising since the Hamas is a fanatic Muslim group following the most militant tenets of Islam. Their publicly-stated charter is to utterly destroy Israel (“drive the jews into the sea”) and create a Muslim nation on the entire area of Palestine. So anything less than that is a non-starter. Any Jew left alive in Israel means that they haven’t finished yet.
Note that there’s nothing in the charter about the Palestinian people - The Hamas takes no civic or sovereign responsibility for the population which they govern. In other words, Hamas sees the Palestinian people as a consumable resource in their fight to bring Islam to 100% of the territory historically referred to as “Palestine”. So building tunnels under schools and hospitals is allowed. Diverting humanitarian aid to the military infrastructure while the population starves is fine. Indoctrinating children from kindergarten about the glory of killing Jews is standard procedure. etc. Using the Gaza residents as human shields is valuable both for reducing Hamas casualties as well as increasing collateral damage which makes Israel “look bad” in the international community.
Compromise is difficult because when negotiating with someone who wants you dead, how do you meet them halfway ?
Israel already look horrible to anyone paying attention, the entire West is backing them
Why agree to this “compromise” when Israel violated the previous one?
Drive the vast majority of a population from their homes, and to a tiny strip of their former homeland, then “generously” offer them to just remain there in their little concentration camp. And not even guaranteed, given Israel’s history. Gee, I wonder why they rejected?
It’s not surprising that this is what occupiers think is “compromise”.
If you know enough history to be familiar with the “previous ones” then you know that that they could have gotten half of Israel’s territory in 1947 but instead they (the Arab nations) preferred to go to war to take it all. And they failed. And then again in 68, same story. BTW Israel has repeatedly offered to transfer control of Gaza to Egypt, the Egyptians have no interest in helping them out in any way. It’s more expedient for all the Arab world that Gaza remains a festering sore in Israel’s side - of course at the expense of the poor Palestinians who are stuck there. Even now, Egypt is unwilling to open it’s border for Palestinians who wish to flee the area. But it’s obviously more fashionable to blame Israel for creating a “concentration camp” even after all of that. No-other country in the region is willing to lift a finger to help them, yet you expect the most from the country which Gaza has sworn to destroy and attacks at every opportunity?
Go further back, even. The UN Partition Plan for Palestine in 1947 would have given Palestine its own territory, splitting it with Israel 45/55. The Arab League and Arab Higher Committee of Palestine both rejected it.
It’s not like compromises have never been offered. The Arabs have simply never been willing to accept anything less than the expulsion of the Jews from the territory.
From their perspective, someone just moved into their house one day and when they objected they said “let’s compromise, you can keep half of the house.” No wonder they rejected that compromise.
Unfortunately we’re now a couple of generations past that initial event so it’s a lot more complicated at this point.
I love conflicted podcast. Condensed: fuck organizers of these attacks (likely iran) just before historic peace treaties in the region. They knew fully well what would the response be.
