For me I would hold the social media companies more to account when it comes to hate speech and harassment online and force social media companies to do more to stop online harassment and hate speech.

  • Dyskolos@lemmy.zip
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    1 year ago

    It is.

    I hate hate speech, but i love free speech, so I have to live with opinions I don’t like or share.

    • blight [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      Not everything you disagree with is hate speech. I think eg Germany has pretty strict limitations on specifically hate speech, but there are still plenty of people voicing opposing views.

      • Dyskolos@lemmy.zip
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        1 year ago

        That was my point. Free speech to me is FREE speech. Not "free speech unless ". I might hate what i hear but i would fight for the right for others to voice that shit. And yes we have strict limitation. And i dislike it. Even though nothing there would restrict me.

        • phillaholic@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          That only really works if the government is preventing you from saying it, and it’s not something like slander or causing panic. If your lemmy instance banned talking about Pickles, it’s not a free speech issue. It’s a private instance who can have their own rules.

          • Dyskolos@lemmy.zip
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            1 year ago

            Correct. If i own a platform, i decide it’s laws. Still doesn’t make unfree speech free 😊 I personally prefer spaces where everyone can voice any shit. Censorship is for lazy minds and a dull audience. IMHO.

            • phillaholic@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              You better be ready to own the consequences of that stance, which I assume you’ve been privileged not to need to. You can look up any number of mass shooters or terrorists who only got there due to online radicalization.

              • Dyskolos@lemmy.zip
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                1 year ago

                Just for the sake of the argument, I’m assuming we (here) actually have a problem with shooters/terrorists (we don’t): So because a fraction of people abuse something makes it valid to punish everyone else too? Is this some “think of the kids!!!”-argument? Surely someone could be radicalized because he COULD. But also there could someone having the opportunity to speak at all. Like a woman in oh-so-many-countries on this stupid planet.

                The negative consequences of free speech don’t warrant the necessity of banning it alltogether. And if we do, who sets the rules? Who draws the line? And do you think the same when the line might be drawn before YOUR opinion? How’d you think about that then? Or are YOU privileged enough to not have to worry about it?

                • phillaholic@lemm.ee
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                  1 year ago

                  I’m going to stop you at we don’t have a problem with terrorists. Shit take, I don’t care to continue.

                  • Dyskolos@lemmy.zip
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                    1 year ago

                    Who is “we”? Where I live we don’t have such things. At least not in a noteworthy quantity. Not everyone is us-american :)

            • darq@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              I personally prefer spaces where everyone can voice any shit. Censorship is for lazy minds and a dull audience. IMHO.

              I always find this take to be remarkably short-sighted.

              Because if you actually want to hear diverse opinions, you have to cultivate a space where diverse people, with diverse experiences, feel free to speak.

              Pretty much every space that tolerates open bigotry becomes deeply unpleasant for the targets of that bigotry. Which means those people tend to leave.

              Which in turn means that those spaces soon turn into the dullest echo chamber, populated only by people unaffected the bigotry. Sure no views were censored. You just harass everybody different off the platform. The net effect is the same.

              • Dyskolos@lemmy.zip
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                1 year ago

                While you’re not wrong, you’re not right either. Is it the fault of the principle of free speech, or the legion of stupid people being allowed to talk freely? You probably want restrictions because it would never apply to you. Denying you talking about stuff that doesn’t phase you, is easy. What if that platform bans opinions that you happen to have? Would you change your opinion or keep away from that, possibly, only platform for that.

                Sure, if you point at 4chan or similar…free speech attracts shitnuggets and end up being an echo chamber. But that’s the fault of us humans being crap, and not free speech being inherently bad.

                • darq@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  Is it the fault of the principle of free speech, or the legion of stupid people being allowed to talk freely?

                  I’m not talking about “the principal of free speech”. I’m pushing back on the foolish assertion that moderation leads to echo chambers for lazy and dull minds. When exactly the opposite is true.

                  I’m saying that if you want to hear diverse opinions, a free-for-all is a bad idea. Because that free-for-all leads to echo chambers.

                  You probably want restrictions because it would never apply to you. Denying you talking about stuff that doesn’t phase you, is easy.

                  No no, don’t make stupid assumptions about me so that you don’t have to confront my point.

                  What if that platform bans opinions that you happen to have?

                  Most of them do. Your assumptions are wrong.

                  Sure, if you point at 4chan or similar…free speech attracts shitnuggets and end up being an echo chamber. But that’s the fault of us humans being crap, and not free speech being inherently bad.

                  I never said free speech was inherently bad. Try responding to what I wrote, not what you imagined that I wrote.

                  • Dyskolos@lemmy.zip
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                    1 year ago

                    I did not assume, I asked what-if. Slight difference. But fine. You’re for moderation even if you’re the one being banned. That’s fine. At least you’re no hipocrite then.

                    But how can I hear “diverse opinion” if X opinions are banned/blocked/moderated in the first place? Reddit was always a good example of echo-chambers and circle-jerking-places where many subreddits were heavily moderated and silencing anything those people didn’t wanna hear. How does moderation help here?

      • Dyskolos@lemmy.zip
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        1 year ago

        Yeah and who draws the line? You? Is free speech only free as long as it is in consensus with the majority?

        • Flyberius [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          You see on one extreme you have people stifling legitimate opinion, and then on the other you have people advocating lynchings. There isn’t a simple answer, but the answer certainly isn’t to smugly sit in the middle and pretend you have it all sussed just because you have no skin in the game. Ultimately all you are doing is advertising that you are ok with lynchings or whatever other forms of bigotted violence because it doesn’t effect you.

          • Dyskolos@lemmy.zip
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            1 year ago

            It does affect me. I am for the free speech of e. G. nazis. Even though it will affect me and all of us.

            But that’s not the point. Free means free. It might be dangerous, it might be far away from my views. But who am I to tell others when they mustn’t voice their opinion? Free speech stops with the very first restriction and rarely stops there.

            You said it’s no easy answer. But to restrict “free” speech is an answer. And it draws a subjective line. Cool if you share the opinion,not so cool if you happen to be the opressed.

            Not a long time ago (or today in other countries) women had no rights to dare voice an opinion. Or blacks. Or gays. Or trans. Or or or or.

            We germans e.g. Aren’t allowed by law to question the holocaust. While i agree it surely happened, forbidding discussion is plain stupid. Question it, and be allowed to be convinced otherwise. That’s rational and mature. Just outlawing the question seems like bad parenting on a law level.

      • Dyskolos@lemmy.zip
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        1 year ago

        Lol. “a greek statue”. That is the basis for your assumption of my political position? What are you? 12? Such mental gymnastics looks like it.