Nazi Germany actually had a more liberal view of abortion than the laws that a lot of Republican states are now passing (for reasons that you can probably imagine, but still)
Nazi Germany isn’t the only form of fascism, and had other individual freedoms even more restricted. Nazi Germany was a far-right, reactionary state that violently suppressed Workers and stripped their freedoms, just like American conservatives are attempting to do and are working towards.
The Nazi stance on abortion wasn’t “liberal”, that’s ludicrous. It ranged from being forbidden for parents of German blood to encouraged or even forced in other cases, it was all about their ideas of racial hygiene. Not even the GOP is that racist, or can you imagine them mandating abortions for mixed-race couples?
The only case where this might be true is even the ban on abortion for German couples did not mean a ban on abortions in medical cases. German (not just Nazi) law generally considers it, as is proper, self-defence. Honestly I don’t think a legal system which doesn’t consider it such can consider itself a legal system at all, Radbruch and everything.
My surviving jewish family were freed from a nazi death camp by the people you call fascists. Equating the two is holocaust trivialization and antisemitic. I literally link you to a well known mainstream Jewish historian and activist about this issue. Do you think David Katz is a “tankie”?
You call me scum equivalent to a nazi in response. Have words lost all meaning to you?
Oh my god there was antisemitism in the USSR, even among some leadership! Several doctors got killed!
You’re right, a few incidences of antisemitism are the same as the holocaust, or the pogroms that the pre-soviet monarchy backed by western liberal democracies engaged in. Or the antisemitism in the post soviet union liberal democracies. /s
You are a deeply unserious person. And a holocaust trivializer if it “owns the tankies” apparently. Great priorities.
Can you point me to the exact sentence where I trivialised the holocaust? Hint: I didn’t say anything about the holocaust. All I gave you is a link, the rest is your imagination.
You, OTOH, are severely trivialising antisemitism within the USSR. Stop fucking fanboying.
pre-soviet monarchy backed by western liberal democracies
Please fucking what liberal democracies during Tsarist times? England, France, possibly, am I missing one? And none of that antisemitism was home-grown, it was all the fault of those evil foreigners making poor Russian nobles and priests do stuff? The country most busy with fucking with Tsarist Russia, specifically sending Lenin over mind you, was Germany, very much not a liberal democracy. The age of liberal democracies started after WWI.
Can you point me to the exact sentence where I trivialised the holocaust? Hint: I didn’t say anything about the holocaust. All I gave you is a link, the rest is your imagination.
Oh, so to clarify, you don’t think that the USSR could be described as morally equivalent to fascism?
You, OTOH, are severely trivialising antisemitism within the USSR. Stop fucking fanboying.
Only in the sense that it is trivial in scale compared to the alternative socioeconomic systems of the time.
Also a woman, stop being sexist by assuming a male default.
And none of that antisemitism was home-grown, it was all the fault of those evil foreigners making poor Russian nobles and priests do stuff?
During the Russian Civil War the US, Britain and France sure militarily and financially supported those nobles and priests who did pogroms regaining power. They went so far as to invade the USSR. They had previous working relationships with them and wanted them back in power. The nobles and priests were antisemitic, as were their western partners.
You gotta be fucking trolling, what fucking western liberal democracies? France?
The US, Britain. France.
Western Europe was almost all constitutional monarchies until the end of WW2 and even then what fucking backing of Tsarist Russia?
The US, France, Britain, and other countries literally invaded the USSR to try to restore the monarchy.
Also who the fuck is trivialising the holocaust now by mentioning it in the same breath as pogroms, as if the scale and systematic nature of the former don’t make them completely disanalogous?
My point is that the amount of antisemitism in the soviet union wasn’t even approaching the level of pogroms, which was much smaller scale than the holocaust.
I reiterate my former point: Fuck off tankie scum.
whose academic background has fuckall to do with history since he’s a fucking philologist.
Dude, don’t do philology dirty like that. They’re reading dusty old tomes all day long and you need a lot of historical knowledge to make proper sense of them. We couldn’t read hieroglyphics without their work, and their extrapolations have been proven by Hittite (which was discovered after the reconstruction of proto-Indo-European and looks exactly as expected). The two disciplines feed into each other. Dr. Daniel Jackson is a philologist and at least as cool as Indiana Jones and do I need to mention J.R.R. Tolkien.
Being genocidal and being exceptionally genocidal both earn you a one way ticket to “shoot on sight” land in my book, debating which one is worse is thoroughly pointless from a moral standpoint and a red herring from a political science standpoint as being a fascist does not require a kill count (though it usually predicts a pretty fucking high one.)
Okay, so people who support liberal “democracies” like the US currently backing genocide should be shot on sight then? Or just the governments responsible?
The problem with “those genocidal communists” is that liberal democracies are significantly more genocidal. You want to go with the least bad system.
Take the notion that man-made famine counts as genocide. 8 million people starve under the capitalist world order every year.
All of those are aspects of fascism. Restricting individual freedoms is a core part of fascism.
Nazi Germany actually had a more liberal view of abortion than the laws that a lot of Republican states are now passing (for reasons that you can probably imagine, but still)
Nazi Germany isn’t the only form of fascism, and had other individual freedoms even more restricted. Nazi Germany was a far-right, reactionary state that violently suppressed Workers and stripped their freedoms, just like American conservatives are attempting to do and are working towards.
How liberal was their view of social equality in regards to varying races?
You DO see how disingenuous your example is, right?
The Nazi stance on abortion wasn’t “liberal”, that’s ludicrous. It ranged from being forbidden for parents of German blood to encouraged or even forced in other cases, it was all about their ideas of racial hygiene. Not even the GOP is that racist, or can you imagine them mandating abortions for mixed-race couples?
The only case where this might be true is even the ban on abortion for German couples did not mean a ban on abortions in medical cases. German (not just Nazi) law generally considers it, as is proper, self-defence. Honestly I don’t think a legal system which doesn’t consider it such can consider itself a legal system at all, Radbruch and everything.
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Sad to see you got some downvotes, your takes here are very technically correct and aware of the big picture and actual facts of the mechanisms.
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I hate having to tap the “calling the USSR or other AES states fascist is antisemitic” sign
https://jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory
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My surviving jewish family were freed from a nazi death camp by the people you call fascists. Equating the two is holocaust trivialization and antisemitic. I literally link you to a well known mainstream Jewish historian and activist about this issue. Do you think David Katz is a “tankie”?
You call me scum equivalent to a nazi in response. Have words lost all meaning to you?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Soviet_Union
Oh my god there was antisemitism in the USSR, even among some leadership! Several doctors got killed!
You’re right, a few incidences of antisemitism are the same as the holocaust, or the pogroms that the pre-soviet monarchy backed by western liberal democracies engaged in. Or the antisemitism in the post soviet union liberal democracies. /s
You are a deeply unserious person. And a holocaust trivializer if it “owns the tankies” apparently. Great priorities.
Can you point me to the exact sentence where I trivialised the holocaust? Hint: I didn’t say anything about the holocaust. All I gave you is a link, the rest is your imagination.
You, OTOH, are severely trivialising antisemitism within the USSR. Stop fucking fanboying.
Please fucking what liberal democracies during Tsarist times? England, France, possibly, am I missing one? And none of that antisemitism was home-grown, it was all the fault of those evil foreigners making poor Russian nobles and priests do stuff? The country most busy with fucking with Tsarist Russia, specifically sending Lenin over mind you, was Germany, very much not a liberal democracy. The age of liberal democracies started after WWI.
Oh, so to clarify, you don’t think that the USSR could be described as morally equivalent to fascism?
Only in the sense that it is trivial in scale compared to the alternative socioeconomic systems of the time.
Also a woman, stop being sexist by assuming a male default.
During the Russian Civil War the US, Britain and France sure militarily and financially supported those nobles and priests who did pogroms regaining power. They went so far as to invade the USSR. They had previous working relationships with them and wanted them back in power. The nobles and priests were antisemitic, as were their western partners.
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The US, Britain. France.
The US, France, Britain, and other countries literally invaded the USSR to try to restore the monarchy.
My point is that the amount of antisemitism in the soviet union wasn’t even approaching the level of pogroms, which was much smaller scale than the holocaust.
Why don’t you call me woke next, CHUD.
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I completely agree with your gist but
Dude, don’t do philology dirty like that. They’re reading dusty old tomes all day long and you need a lot of historical knowledge to make proper sense of them. We couldn’t read hieroglyphics without their work, and their extrapolations have been proven by Hittite (which was discovered after the reconstruction of proto-Indo-European and looks exactly as expected). The two disciplines feed into each other. Dr. Daniel Jackson is a philologist and at least as cool as Indiana Jones and do I need to mention J.R.R. Tolkien.
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Okay, so people who support liberal “democracies” like the US currently backing genocide should be shot on sight then? Or just the governments responsible?
The problem with “those genocidal communists” is that liberal democracies are significantly more genocidal. You want to go with the least bad system.
Take the notion that man-made famine counts as genocide. 8 million people starve under the capitalist world order every year.
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