First all the bs with Twitter and Elon, then Reddit having an exodus to Lemmy (not complaining lol), then Twitch. Are we like, in an alternate self healing dimension or something?

  • sharp@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    21
    ·
    2 years ago

    From Cory Doctorow:

    Here is how platforms die: First, they are good to their users; then they abuse their users to make things better for their business customers; finally, they abuse those business customers to claw back all the value for themselves. Then, they die.

    https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-platforms-cory-doctorow/

    Some of it is because we had a decade of cheap borrowing which has come to an end and many of these platforms were never profitable.

  • effingnerd@beehaw.org
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    15
    ·
    2 years ago

    I have a sinking feeling that these moves are not about money, but more about power and manipulation. If you squeeze these user bases such that the savviest users are forced out, those more likely to ask “Why?” about damn near anything, you will own access to a group of people that can be influenced to think/do/buy whatever the top management and/or majority shareholders want. If you lose a few million users, what does it matter if they were dissidents to your goals?

    • kool_newt@beehaw.org
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      11
      ·
      2 years ago

      This is where my mind goes. Kinda convenient that Twitter and Reddit, both likely particularly dangerous to those seeking power happen to be destroyed seemingly intentionally in the same year ahead of a sure to be insane U.S. election season.

      • burgersc12@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        2 years ago

        Hmm, kinda interesting. A lot of Trump shit was spread on Reddit during the 2016 election, makes sense they would try to get rid of anyone who would oppose that content

    • Maaji@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      edit-2
      2 years ago

      Not money per se, but the oil of the 21st century: data.

      I guarantee it’s primarily about improving their ability to harvest and sell user data.

      • imbrucy@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        2 years ago

        Exactly. The native apps can gather so much more info than a website and they have to kill third party apps to force people to use the official client.

    • half_built_pyramids@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      2 years ago

      100% power There’s parallels to the writer strikes Netflix ceo got like 2x the money that all the writers are asking for in bonus so it’s not about money It’s something else

        • donio@beehaw.org
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          9
          ·
          edit-2
          2 years ago

          In Timeline-α the Visitors didn’t turn away in disgust and Contact was approved. The Uplift process is well underway, environmental conditions have been stabilized and restoration is progressing well. Space travel is still restricted to the Solar System but Humanity is on track to full Membership. Ambassador Harambe has resumed his duties on the Council.

  • Kevin Herrera@beehaw.org
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    12
    ·
    2 years ago

    From everything I have observed, businesses are hunkering down for a recession in the next fiscal year. It explains the lay offs, the penny pinching, and puzzling decisions that look like business suicide.

    For services that are free for users, advertising revenue and investment fund raisers are the only thing keeping them afloat. With banks like SVB getting seized by the FDIC, it’s starting to scare investors. Advertisers are seeing the writing on the wall that people will stop spending as much as they used to. We are also probably seeing jacked up pricing across the board because businesses are taking what they can before it’s gone.

    So what’s left? Squeeze users for money. Additionally, shed users that actually cost them money and these tend to be power users. The question, which everyone seems to be assuming is a foregone conclusion, is if this shedding strategy will end up killing the service. In reality, we don’t know but the idealists would sure feel good if someone else ate their market share.

    I’m just glad that federation is picking up steam in the social media space.

    • Otakeb@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      edit-2
      2 years ago

      Also what hasn’t been touched on very much in this thread is the increase in interest rates from the Federal Reserve. The money hose has shut off and expansionary business policy won’t work for the foreseeable future even disregarding a recession. All these internet companies have developed and grown in an essentially 0% interest rate environment that rewarded growth beyond all else. With rates increasing, investment in risky companies that may or may not grow is becoming a less attractive option when you can just buy a 5% bond and so I bet a lot of these non-profitable, growth-focused web companies are seeing liquidity dry up and are having to reach profitability to avoid bankruptcy since servicing new debt in this current interest environment is basically impossible without solid cashflow and a clear corporate vision.

      This is leading to all these companies suddenly raising prices, cutting staff, choking competition, and cheaping out to try and break even instead of grow. It’s a paradigm shift.

      • Rickety Thudds@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        2 years ago

        Crazy to hear people talking about this stuff out in the wild. Feels like I’m on superstonk, only place I tend to hear anyone connecting these dots.

        • Otakeb@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          2 years ago

          Speaking of superstonk, is there a good superstonk or wsb personalfinance lemmy community? I am subbed to the beehaw finance community, but it’s really not a tube yet and seems to be a bit more economics leaning than pure personal finance or investing.

          The subs I spend a lot of time on were FIRE, financialindependence, wsb, and personal finance and I miss them lol.

          • Rickety Thudds@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            2 years ago

            The Canadian GameStop folks have a community on lemmy.ca, but we are still very few.

            I would like to join a federated wsb community too, if there’s anyone with any integrity willing to run it impartially. Anyone running such a place has a conflict of interest imo, the tendency is moral hazard. At least with single stock communities you know their motive.

    • MyNameIsFred@beehaw.org
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      2 years ago

      I agree with most of what you said. I would say classifying SVB as a seizure is probably not accurate. The FDIC only came in when it was clear SVB was going to fold and in fact insured far more than the 250k per account guaranteed. Mainly to try and stem a run on midsize banks because

      1. Many companies had large holdings, undiversified in these banks

      2. The banks were borderline negligent with how they handled those deposits, sticking them all in “safe” government bonds that ruins liquidity.

      Once the interest rate on the bonds was lower than the base borrowing rate, no one would buy the bonds instead of just buying new bonds with a much higher guaranteed return.

      So, given that, I would say the FDIC instead bailed out the banks. Something they would never do for you or I, or even a business with similar valuation as any of the banks customers.

      • hglman@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        2 years ago

        There is a psychology at work in layoffs—ownership forces management to choose to hurt people to give more to ownership. Like paying a blood tribute to the king, but dumber.

        • half_built_pyramids@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          2 years ago

          I like, and suspect this to be the true reason, the argument that one company sees another doing layoffs so they do layoffs. It’s all just a race to the bottom.

  • tallwookie@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    10
    ·
    2 years ago

    twitter was overvalued. reddit has made a lot of questionable business decisions over the last decade or so but their recent API change will be their death knell. it feel like a cash grab. I personally only use Twitch to watch Bob Ross reruns :P

  • yourgodlucifer@kbin.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    7
    ·
    2 years ago

    please can youtube be next?

    I really want to stop using my google account and that’s the only thing keeping me from moving away from it.

  • AnagrammadiCodeina@feddit.it
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    3
    ·
    2 years ago

    The reality is that nothing is really dying and nothing is really changing. Twitter is still fully operational and other than a small hit nothing happened. Twitch already did a step back. For Reddit we’ll see but only a really small percentage of reddit is using third party apps.

    • naoseiquemsou@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      2 years ago

      It’s not the services that are dying, but the internet as we used to know.

      Change is natural, but the services are all changing in a way not beneficial forthe users.

    • dillydogg@lemmy.one
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      2 years ago

      I think the “the internet is dying” perspectives are all incredibly overblown. They aren’t going anywhere anytime soon. I remember all of the “Facebook is dead, I don’t know anyone using Facebook!” posts, but I suspect many here are invested in some index fund that is being pulled upwards by Meta.

      • Gullevek@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        2 years ago

        But how many people are still exchanging facebook contacts? Because I haven’t met anyone anymore …

        • dillydogg@lemmy.one
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          2 years ago

          Good point! I suspect it’s a lot more than we think. My parents are definitively still involved in doing this.

          But on the other hand, does exchanging contacts mean anything to Facebook anymore? I don’t think that’s important to their income stream anymore. If the OP meant “these sites are still going strong but aren’t what they were when they began”, then of course I agree.

        • sparx@beehaw.org
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          2 years ago

          A significant point would be that I’ll just find you when I get home if I cared enough about our interaction.

  • kamin@lemmy.kghorvath.com
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    3
    ·
    2 years ago

    We’ve reached the end of the VC-funded golden age where they are all now demanding a return on their investment, hence why the screws are now all getting tightened.

    • omarciddo@beehaw.org
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      2 years ago

      I’m honestly surprised it even got this far. It was just common sense to me, even a decade ago, that companies that burned through VC cash and tried building up user bases with little regard for actual profitability couldn’t possibly keep it up forever.

  • Pigeon@beehaw.org
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    2 years ago

    This Lemmy migration does feel like waaaaay more positive of a result than I ever expected from reddit getting worse.

    I’ve always appreciated the idea of the fediverse, but mastodon and the twitter-style of social media has never appealed to me, and Lemmy used to be so tiny and niche, so I didn’t invest much time in it until now. But this sure is nice, comparatively. I’m probably on here too much though!

    • OverfedRaccoon@lemmy.one
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      edit-2
      2 years ago

      Same. Never cared about Twitter, but I like new internet stuff, so I got on Mastodon. Never used it and forgot about it for years. Came back to it with all the Elon stuff and realized the instance was dead, so I created a new account on another instance to never use. The point is, like you said, Lemmy is something I will actually use if the community continues to grow and sticks around.

      • raiun@beehaw.org
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        2 years ago

        Mastodon has a place, just isn’t for some people. I found the same problem you had with it. Just like how conversations work better in a Reddit-like style of communicating.

  • comfy@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    edit-2
    2 years ago

    Well, while it is surprising it’s all happening within a year or so, it’s not unexpected at all.

    They’re ultimately for-profit companies. They have openly demonstrated the obvious truth that when push comes to shove, users don’t matter to them, at least not as much as money. Our attention was the product.

    These companies have proven time and time again that a quick moneygrab will win over retaining the people who make the site work. capitalism 101 baby.

    • ToastyWaffle@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      2 years ago

      Yep, think of the math like this:

      1000 users that we can get $1 of profit from totalling $1000 profit

      Or 500 users we can get $3 of profit from totalling $1500 profit.

      $1500 > $1000 Therefore it’s a good decision.

      Welcome to the mind of corporate executives

      Source: I work with these dumbasses