The atrocities at Al-Shifa Hospital are clear, but Israeli politicians say not a single civilian was killed. It’s just one of several outlandish claims Israel has made recently.

A human rights monitor documented the sniping of at least 13 children in and around Shifa Hospital, all between the ages of 4 and 16.

  • Cossty@lemmy.worldEnglish
    482·
    9 months ago

    I can’t imagine being a person who sees 4 year old kid in a scope and just shoots them…

    Like. … what goes through their head…do they have their own kids… what they do in their free time…

    I just cant imagine person like that.

    • repungnant_canary@lemmy.worldEnglish
      331·
      9 months ago

      At this point I’m afraid we can look at Nazis (oh the irony…) to understand those Israelis. The similarities of soulless brutality are pretty obvious…

    • xanu@lemmy.worldEnglish
      322·
      9 months ago

      Listen to how a large portion (obviously not all) Israelis talk about Palestinians. They genuinely do not view them as humans and certainly do not value their lives. They speak of the ongoing genocide with gleeful anticipation. People will literally go to the border to taunt Palestinian parents who’ve lost their children or the orphans themselves.

      They’re not shooting a 4 year old kid, they’re simply shooting another “worthless” Palestinian. This way of thinking was and is specifically crafted to enable almost every genocide that has ever happened.

      • caveman@lemmy.mlEnglish
        61·
        9 months ago

        I have a friend who is Jewish and since 10+ years she shares jokes telling Palestinians are bombers and robbers, and thar Jews are inventors, or telling me that Palestinians don’t even exist. When I counter argue her she gets pissed and says she accepts no moral lessons from anyone.

        That’s sad for me, because I only know 4 Jewish person: 2 were very nice but I lost contact, and the 2 others are so belligerent destroy the good image I have of Jewish people.

        On the other side, I know some 20 Palestinians and much more Arabs, and all of them except one never said anything bad against Jewish (but of course they don’t approve when Israel kills people).

        When my Jewish friend tell me that Arabs hate Jews and I provide her this statistics she gets crazy mad again.

        • xanu@lemmy.worldEnglish
          21·
          9 months ago

          No, they are people. Ignorant, hateful, and actively supporting a genocide, but people nonetheless. My comment was explicitly calling out and criticizing the impulse to dehumanize the “enemy”, real or imagined. Thinking of Zionist Israelis or Nazis as less than human not only perpetuates the mindset that allows these groups to carry out genocide, but at the same time denies how easy it is for average people to fall into such traps.

          It leads to thought processes similar to “If you have to be less than human to support a genocide, then obviously what I support can’t be genocide because I am definitely a human.”

          And I’m definitely not one of those “oh, we just have to talk to these hateful ignorant perpetuators of genocide because they simply don’t understand why they’re wrong”. I’m of the opinion that violence is absolutely necessary to uphold equality if the situation has been left to get as bad as it has. I’m mostly just railing against the idea that people who support genocide are somehow less human because of that hatred.

            • xanu@lemmy.worldEnglish
              1·
              9 months ago

              Yeah, I agree with everything you just said, but make no mistake, the monsters committing genocide are still human beings. Denying that blurs the line of the purpose of violence done against them and makes it difficult to understand that we must constantly be vigilant against rhetoric and propaganda that advocates for genocide as it is scarily easy for people to fall into patterns of thinking that can justify genocide.

              It is irresponsible to say that, because they are actively committing genocide against a population, they are no longer human beings and that is why they deserve violence. It’s an unnecessary extra step that opens the door for the very same genocidal thinking. They are people who have engaged in genocide with no signs of slowing down or stopping, and for that one reason alone, deserve violence until their threat is quashed. That is enough for me; I see no reason or benefit to dehumanize them to justify righteous violence.

                • xanu@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  1·
                  9 months ago

                  This is becoming frustrating. We are on the same page that violence is the only answer; I’m only insisting that we understand that the violence has to be done against our fellow humans. It is a tragedy, but one that must be enacted because, as you say, there is no negotiation to be had here.

                  Denying their humanity weakens the claim of righteousness and, moreso than enabling room for their bad faith bullshit, directly feeds into their bad faith claims of antisemitism as dehumanizing them removes genocide from the argument and all your left with is killing animals/barbarians/evil monsters. I don’t know about you, but that argument is wholly unconvincing to me. You can certainly claim that because they’ve engaged in genocide, that’s why they’ve lost their humanity, but again, it’s an unnecessary mental step that gains us nothing and weakens the argument for deploying violence against them.

                  For the soldier / PTSD argument, I again disagree. Soldiers kill people. There should be no way around that fact. Dehumanization and making it easier for soldiers to mentally compartmentalize the taking of life is not a good thing and can easily be warped to make soldiers follow any order, regardless of the moral imperative. The soldiers can and should be made to understand that they are committing a traumatic amount of violence and death in order to stop an entire genocide. Violence is a tool and it must be wielded responsibly and with full understanding that the violence is both necessary and just.

                  Also chill with the faux philosophical ramblings of simulations and video game analogies. I don’t care what you believe outside of this context, but this is a serious issue and talking about “disabl[ing] PvP flags for the middle east” belies that this is the real world (simulated or not) with real, serious consequences. It damages your entire argument and makes you come across like you don’t see the actual human pain and suffering this massacre has caused.

      • tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        162·
        9 months ago

        Would you like to see footage of it? I don’t have the energy but it doesn’t take long to find direct evidence of this happening, numerous times for years. The IDF purposely kills children. In one documented instance they even tied a Palestinian child to the hood of their vehicle as a shield. It sounds comically absurd and evil but this is what we know of.

        • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】@lemmy.worldEnglish
          128·
          9 months ago

          Yes I rememeber the kid they tied to the car. He didn’t die though. The practice was outlawed by the Israeli Supreme Court. Hamas still using entire cities as human shields unfortunately. I’m not real concerned about the ~25 documented cases of Israeli’s doing it.

          It’s the report of snipers just sniping four year old kids that I find unbelievable, and don’t believe.

          • tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
            19·
            9 months ago

            The IDF has killed more people than Hamas has militants, mostly women and children. Precision targetted aid vehicles multiple times. The bodies of children shot by sniper fire have been examined and confirmed several times even before this escalation. If you are still so deluded by propaganda to say that Hamas is using human shields then there is no hope of discussion. I pray you go to Gaza yourself to witness hell.

            • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】@lemmy.worldEnglish
              123·
              9 months ago

              There are zero confirmed reports of snipers killing little kids. How does glancing at a body determine if a shot was fired by a sniper rifle or a ricochet stray bullet from a firefight four blocks away? Have you seen what a sniper rifle does to a body? Doesn’t leave much to examine. Doesn’t look much different from a hundred other kinds of traumatic injuries, especially without an autopsy.

              There are reports. All kinds of reports. A lot of them are third and fourth hand. Virtually all of them are unverified.

              By my dude, building five hundred miles of tunnels in an area only 25 miles wide is literally using the entire area above the tunnels as human shields.

              This is a good example of anti semitism. Hamas uses 2.5 million people as a human shield and that’s perfectly fine with you. They get a pass because the news makes you sad. But not Israel. They used twenty five people as human shields and in your mind that’s a war crime. That double standard doesn’t make any sense, unless of course you give Hamas a pass because they are fielding soldiers to kill Jews. Seems kind of like that’s the case. I mean, it’s a very stark and obvious double standard.

              • tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
                13·
                9 months ago

                There have been actual independent autospies done, I don’t mean a quick glance at a body. And I would build tunnels too if my neighbor had a history of bombing me and seizing my terrority.

                Every non-state militant group is claimed to use the civilian population as human shields. This simply isn’t true, it’s rhetoric to justify the bombing because it’s simpler than fighting on the ground. In assymetric warfare a resistance group has no choice but to be active in the place they are stuck at. Even if they were using human shields, it shows the IDF is heartless because they have no concern for any civilian deaths, including Israeli hostages.

                It’s like if a bank robber took a hostage and a cop just blasted through them, killing half the bank. That would be horrific and unnecessary murder.

                • jordanlund@lemmy.worldMEnglish
                  6·
                  9 months ago

                  More like if a bank robber took a hostage and the police bulldozed their house, then the rest of the block “just to be sure” and “to send a message”.

                • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  116·
                  9 months ago

                  They could, I don’t know, surrender, release the hostages, call for elections, etc., maybe have even slight tolerance to other cultures and try participating in trade? Nobody made Gaza put such short sighted leadership in charge. They don’t have to choose to be isolated theocratic extremists with a singular purpose of ridding the holy land of infidels, labeled by all of the free world as a terrorist organization. There’d be peace in Gaza tomorrow if Hamas gave themselves up today. Even Japan eventually surrendered.

                  • tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
                    10·
                    9 months ago

                    If Hamas wasn’t there, an even more effective group would emerge to fight Israel. The offensive on Oct 7th was by a coalition of groups. You say no one made Gaza put them in charge, but Israel has spent millions propping up Hamas. They were chosen by Israel specifically because of their unpalatable extremism. Israel has supported Hamas materially while taking steps to thwart other groups. Israel has used all avenues possible for years to create the situation we see now.

              • reddit_sux@lemmy.worldEnglish
                4·
                9 months ago

                There are reports of 500 miles of tunnels and Hamas using people as sheild.

                Idf showing 2 tunnels and claiming 500 miles is just as valid as showing 300 deaths and claiming genocide. If you can trust the first then trust the second too.

                That Israelis are genocidal maniacs.

              • jordanlund@lemmy.worldMEnglish
                4·
                9 months ago

                There are zero confirmed reports of snipers killing little kids.

                I guess it depends on how you define “little kids”.

                14 year old girl?

                https://www.aljazeera.com/program/newsfeed/2024/2/8/israeli-sniper-kills-palestinian-girl-in-front-of-gaza-hospital

                6 year old girl?

                https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/2/10/body-of-6-year-old-killed-in-deliberate-israeli-fire-found-after-12-days

                Boy of unknown age?

                https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231225-an-israeli-sniper-targeted-a-palestinian-childs-hand-in-gaza/

                8 and 15 year old?

                https://english.ahram.org.eg/News/513138.aspx

                14 year old boy?

                https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_forces_shoot_kill_14_year_old_palestinian_boy_in_al_far_a_refugee_camp

                As the OP notes, this is nothing new.

                9 year old in 2019:

                https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2019-07-21/ty-article/.premium/the-protest-dispersed-then-an-israeli-sniper-shot-a-9-year-old-boy-in-the-head/0000017f-e3ff-d9aa-afff-fbffde890000

                14 year old in 2004:

                https://english.wafa.ps/Pages/Details/103643

                • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  22·
                  9 months ago

                  You have to be joking right now with these links?

                  First one is a 56 second TikTok video with no credible reporting attached to it. Just the bald statements of someone in social media and some video clips that do not show any gunfire whatsoever. Hardly proves the kid was intentionally sniped. Is this what you accept as credible evidence of something? Also, like, Al Jazeera? Qatari state media with no credibility when it comes to Gaza. They followed none of the usual standards of journalistic integrity. Very clear state sponsored agenda. Obviously they are exaggerating and serving up the most scandalous, unverified “reports” and portraying them as fact. Next.

                  Second link, another Al Jazeera, this one is a third hand report that does not have anything to do with your claim that Israel is sniping kids. Even giving you an assumption that every fact alleged is true, at best it shows that the IDF shot a car that happened to have a kid in it. Obviously there are cars all over the place in Gaza, and so the IDF clearly isn’t just going in and lighting up any car that they see. Perhaps this car was driving toward the tank that shot it? It is not proof that Israel knowingly targeting a kid, and it has nothing to do with snipers.

                  Third link, MEMo this time, also Qatari state media, a 15 second clip with a bald allegation that the kid’s hand got shot by a sniper. Nothing in this link doesn’t prove that the claim isn’t entirely made up by Qatari State media and slapped onto a 15 second clip of a kid with a blurred out hand. You really accept that as proof that the IDF intentionally sniped this kid? How can the kid or the doctor or anyone seeing this know it was sniper fire and not a ricochet, or a piece of shrapnel and not even a bullet?

                  Fourth link, now jumping over to Egyptian state media. Still liars but with different motives. At least in this one they concede the kid was trespassing in a secured military area. The description doesn’t sound like sniper fire though, sounds like automatic rifles. That’s a far stretch from lining up right on a kid and blasting for no reason.

                  Fifth one, sounds legit even after sorting through the the extra innuendo and looking at the reported facts. Should be investigated. The tenor of your allegation is that Israeli snipers are literally just out plinking kids. This kid was on top of a building near a firefight and an active special forces raid, watching it go down. Maybe they thought he had a weapon or was acting as a spotter. If the special forces, trained sniper plinked a kid without following rules of engagement, the sniper should spend the rest of their life in a military prison. But I think Netanyahu is like Trump, promotes people who would let this guy off, like that sniper Trump pardoned

                  That’s all the time I have right now.

                  • jordanlund@lemmy.worldMEnglish
                    3·
                    9 months ago

                    I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Israel has murdered over 10,000 kids in Gaza. Snipers aside. It’s absolutely inexcusable.

                    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/02/gaza-palestinian-children-killed-idf-israel-war

                    “Children account for more than one in three of the more than 32,000 people killed in Israel’s months-long assault on Gaza, according to the Palestinian health ministry. Tens of thousands more young people have suffered severe injuries, including amputations.”

                    And, again, not new. Israel has been doing this for DECADES.

                    “Israeli and foreign human rights groups have documented a long history of snipers firing on unarmed Palestinians, including children, in Gaza and the West Bank.”