The Government of Canada is hammering down on its stance against the use of cluster munitions following the U.S. decision to send the controversial weapon to Ukraine.
Yeah, but you have to weigh that against the harm that kicking the Russian out quickly will prevent. It’s like chemotherapy. It fucks you up too, but less than it fucks up the thing that’s killing you.
Generations of having a chance to blow up children. vs maybe a short term push of the front, maybe.
Idk if I’d take the trade. With conventional weapons UA is already kicking ass.
I live in a city where 500-1000kg WWII bomb finds are a common occurrence. Every few weeks at least a whole block gets evacuated for a day. And those are easier to find, less randomly spread, more reliable.
Generations of having a chance to blow up children. vs maybe a short term push of the front, maybe.
The thing you’re forgetting is that the Russians are busy laying as many landmines as they can get their hands on all over eastern Ukraine. Using cluster munitions to drive the Russians out will result in less UXO than letting them continue doing that.
With conventional weapons UA is already kicking ass.
I guess we must be following different news outlets, then. All I’m hearing is that the Ukrainian counter-offensive is going a lot slower than planned. And if you can be sure of one thing in a war, it’s that things are always worse than the belligerents are willing to admit.
I meant to add: it’s tragic enough that mines are deployed so much in this conflict.
I personally think saying cluster munitions will end it quicker ergo result in less uxos is a bit simplified a->b thinking that rarely works out in reality.
I think UA should absolutely aim to limit uxos from their side as much as realisticly possible, and i dont know if CMs are as big of a power swing as you make em out to be.
Fortunately (in my eyes), they pledged not to use these measures already
Eh… I figure if CMs weren’t effective, they wouldn’t be using them. There’s a good reason the military heavyweights refuse to join the international treaty that bans them.
Also, the whole discussion is basically moot, since apparently Ukraine has been using old Soviet CMs all along anyway. Getting more modern American ones with a much lower percentage of duds will be nothing but an improvement.
Thats not the issue here. I mean fuck russia, yes.
But cluster ammunitions indiscriminately cover an area, military and otherwise. Impossible to track what ends up where, when it comes to UXOs.
Decades from now, innocent civilians, often kids, may dig up random ordnance and die due to the nature of the weapon.
Yeah, but you have to weigh that against the harm that kicking the Russian out quickly will prevent. It’s like chemotherapy. It fucks you up too, but less than it fucks up the thing that’s killing you.
People will always use this logic to justify whatever horrendous crime their “side” is committing.
Dan Carlin did an episode of his fantastic Hardcore History podcast on this, it’s called Logical Insanity. I highly recommend it.
Generations of having a chance to blow up children. vs maybe a short term push of the front, maybe.
Idk if I’d take the trade. With conventional weapons UA is already kicking ass.
I live in a city where 500-1000kg WWII bomb finds are a common occurrence. Every few weeks at least a whole block gets evacuated for a day. And those are easier to find, less randomly spread, more reliable.
The thing you’re forgetting is that the Russians are busy laying as many landmines as they can get their hands on all over eastern Ukraine. Using cluster munitions to drive the Russians out will result in less UXO than letting them continue doing that.
I guess we must be following different news outlets, then. All I’m hearing is that the Ukrainian counter-offensive is going a lot slower than planned. And if you can be sure of one thing in a war, it’s that things are always worse than the belligerents are willing to admit.
How does that relate to it?
“there are already mines so spreading more is good”?
More like “tons of mines are being placed every day, so stopping that from happening is good”.
Yeah sry i jumped the gun on hitting post.
I meant to add: it’s tragic enough that mines are deployed so much in this conflict.
I personally think saying cluster munitions will end it quicker ergo result in less uxos is a bit simplified a->b thinking that rarely works out in reality.
I think UA should absolutely aim to limit uxos from their side as much as realisticly possible, and i dont know if CMs are as big of a power swing as you make em out to be.
Fortunately (in my eyes), they pledged not to use these measures already
Eh… I figure if CMs weren’t effective, they wouldn’t be using them. There’s a good reason the military heavyweights refuse to join the international treaty that bans them.
Also, the whole discussion is basically moot, since apparently Ukraine has been using old Soviet CMs all along anyway. Getting more modern American ones with a much lower percentage of duds will be nothing but an improvement.
Well as i wrote, they pledged yesterday not to use any. So uhh
Ukraine will record where they used them to help the demining effort later