I do enjoy discussions like these, but we are getting stuck.

Im talking about the quote you said earlier, and how, while it is a strong quote, its not universal and it cannot be just tossed as is to the other situation. The quote critiques how people enjoying certain benefits are slow to change their opinion and behavior when people they seem less worthy are given chance to get some of those benefits for themself.

And the situation we are talking is how much people are willing to take if there will be a trade war in future. These are two very different situations.

If my friend needs medicine to live and they cant get it because some nation on the other side of the sea wants to subjucate us, it is only going to get me hate that nation harder.

Please answer this question: Would you sacrifice yourself, and everyone you’ve loved, for your principles?

By the way this is called a yes set. Its when you are asking questions where only reasonable answer for the other side is to agree with you or pick a response you have already decited. Ideally this leaves you in the position where you can keep building on that and getting other person agreeing with you turns arguments into discussions, even if it is scripted. Few of these and im gonna buy a car from you.

You want a safe car for your family, right? Is it important to you, that your car is dependable? What matters to you more, the mileage or how it drives?

This sedan was just waiting for you to come in!

Dont you know? We are playing the reverse game. Americans putting people in to concentration camp’s and things like that.

And my point is that you cant expect every culture act similary to 30’s/40’s white american nuclear family

Im sorry for the hardship you are experiencing. I truly wish USA will someday have proper care and safety nets for the people.

But you cant mirror you situation to the whole world.

I recommend you to read about 21st century civil unrests in France. I dont say its necessary the right thing to do, but boy those people dont stay passive or care about status quo if they feel like something isint going to their way. I really cant imagine figure like Trump would stay in power for long in there.

There are a surprising amount of batshit-crazy ultra billionaires. They have the same weaknesses as everyone else. They succumb to their own collective propaganda. They are narcissistic sociopaths.

This is a fair assestment. Alltough i personally feel like they have just so removed from the problems of the normal people, that they dont know what the life is to rest of us. Like i think many people have experiences with a supervisor/boss that has not been done the everyday part of the job in so long, they dont anymore know how to assess it.

Scholars also noted that big business developed an increasingly close partnership with the Italian Fascist and German Nazi governments after they took power.

Operative word being “after”. At that point the figurative boat has allready capsized. We are not there yet.

In the US, we have been pulling our hair out trying to understand why so many us are believing stark lies that lead to ruin. We have about a dozen billionaires in cabinet positions. Our oligarch class wholeheartedly supports Trump. Yeah, some push back when their pot gets disturbed, then they give the admin money or power in exchange for a carve-out and contract.

From my outside perspective your system is just broken. President has too much power and the two party system just makes it so that the moment other party gets elected they start by undoing what the predecessor did. Congress is good thing, but again the two party system shoots it in the leg.

Also i cant comprehend the gerrymandering. Its a thing that made sense in a time when poll results were delivered on horseback.

I hope you guys find a way to fix your shit, but world will go on even if you wont. USA is not as important to the world as your news or schools may say.

He lived in a time when racial segregation was the norm and wrote from the perspective afro american male.

Women had just gotten a right to vote and while they could get a job, huge part of them were housewifes. And the jobs they could apply were still very limited.

The whole socioeconomic situation and upbringing of people cant be compared to modern day EU. I think good example how much culture and history effects to the way people act, is watching how people in Japan react during and after disasters and compare it to how people in states react. Granted its extreme example and USA and EU are not that far apart from eachother, but it shows well how differently different cultures act in different situation. Hence i say, that MLK’s writings cant just be willy nilly aplied to people living on the otherside of the world allmost a century after the writing.

I did not say money was smart. Im saying that if you have billions tied to a boat you dont want to shake it. Fasist regimes are not the same as oligarch. Hitler, Stalin and Mussolini were not rich busines men when they started their politics. Maybe they werent dirt poor either, but most of their wealth came after. If you look soviets at the beginning there were rich people who tried to fight the regime, but in the end they were forced to work with the leaders in power or disapear. What i am trying to say is, when people have lots of money tied to something, they try to keep things steady. Ofcouse there will be fanatics, but most people who handle huge amounts of money are business savy enough to see that tanking the economy now is not worth of the unsure payout in the future, when the way things go now are allready making them rich.

Whitout disrespecting MLK, he wrote about completelly different people, with completelly different values who were living in a different time. You cant really bring writings about highly individualistic culture in a time when racial segration was common and slavery were still so fresh there were both, people who used to own slaves and people who were born in slavery alive, and except it to represent modern day europeans accuratelly. I think Bernie Sanders is good example. In USA he is perceived as a borderline extremist by some, but in most european countries his policies are pretty mild and centrist.

I bet EU countries would fare much better than USA in face of economic hardship. Europeans generally are not as invidualistic as americans and social safety nets are better.

And no, i honestly havent seen those comments. I try to steer clear from social media, and what i have seen here are more desperate calls for action than anything else.

I have really hard time beliving the rich and powerfull would on purpose cross the line and bomb the economy, because they have most to lose. The risk and the reward just does not add up.

Android is open source. Google makes money trough playstore and youtube. Google pays for phone manufactorers so they keep apps like maps and gmail preinstalled on the phones. If at some point there would be situation where company like samsung would need to choose between googles money or their biggest market, market wins. By a huge margin.

USA has hard time stopping Algeria from trading with EU by any other way than military force. EU is their biggest trade partner. 48% of their trade is to European Union.

Also where you get the individuals are weak thing? Like i already said. You are over estimating the importance American trade. And you are forgetting trade goes both ways.

Millions of jobs in the United States are related to EU-US trade and investment. The European Union is a reliable source of critical supplies to the United States, including medicinal ingredients and pharmaceutical products, advanced machinery and equipment, and aerospace parts and components. At the same time, the European Union is the largest buyer of the United States’ natural gas and oil, but states are not the biggest importer of gas and oil for EU.

Total bilateral trade in goods between the EU and the US reached €851 billion in 2023. The EU exported €503 billion of goods to the US market, while importing €347 billion; this resulted in a goods trade surplus of €157 billion for the EU. Total bilateral trade in services between the EU and the US was worth €746 billion in 2023. The EU exported €319 billion of services to the US, while importing €427 billion from the US; this resulted in a services trade deficit of €109 billion for the EU.

The difference between EU exports to the US and US exports to the EU stood at €48 billion in 2023; the equivalent of just 3% of the total trade between the EU and the US.

Also since you like to talk about the oligarchs.

The EU and the US are also major investment partners. EU and US firms have €4.7 trillion worth of investment in each other’s markets (2023 data).

How do you think these oligarchs feel if that 5,5 trillion dollars of investments start to unravel.

What a nice and well-balanced fella.

You are over estimating the importance of american products. Android has 60% market share in eu while iphone has 39%. Norway and Algeria supplied both more LNG to europe than USA in 2024.

At Q3. 2025 EU bought only 14,5% of our petrolium oil from USA. Norway alone was 14,6%.

EU is allready looking into making our own replacement for visa and mastercard.

Food and drink is not really a problem as many processed products USA produces already recognized as non suitable for human consuption. South america will be happy to provide nuts and fruits for EU. Especially when their neighboring country is acting hostile towards them at the moment and most alchohol USA produce is considered bottomself stuff.

Car imports from the USA has been falling for years, even before Trumps tarifs.

I think windows is hardest to shake as most businesses use it and most softwares are designed to use it.

Cultural things like movies, tv series and music and somesoftware are also hard to replace.

And mr. Nobel invented dynamite. Should i shun Nelson Mandela because he won the price named after somebody whose invention has brought death in large scale?

Science wont kill, the application does. Yelling about NASA being military monster institution is directing your energy to the wrong place. Be angry towards pentagon or to american goverment. Dont be try to bunch NASA in to the same group, just because you feel bad about the world. Their work has brought betterment for humanity and yelling how they are just nazies trying to end the world just eats their credibility.

Also i want to point out, that the naive person, who does not understand how the world works, here are you. Trying to neatly box huge institution with over 18 000 people working in, into one neat package, when in the real world you know everything is not black and white and sometimes people need to do things they dont necessary agree with, so later they can keep working on things they want to.

Also i dont consider myself as a liberal. Im from country with working democracy, and where politics are more intrique than blue versus red.

The sneering was only half intentional. And personaly i quite enjoy discussing things like this.

But i still strongly disagree with your view. Hello Games was small studio at the start, but they havent been ringing the indie bell for their game and in my opinion they havent stolen the limelight from indie devs. Games like Terraria and Stardew valley are still celebrated games and people are praising those games and the work devs have being doing with the updates.

Following your logic one could argue, that companies behind those games are not anywhere near the small indie teams people imagine them. And we should be angry for them too, because they take the spotlight from games like Dwarf Fortress and Project Zomboid, that have been passion projects for years before those earlier two even were concepts.

The main thing that makes No Man Sky different is that those succesfull indie games were good from the beginning, while NMS was horrible and borderline unsalvageable game, but the devs kept working on it and making it slowly better. A effort most companies wont do.

So in my opinion people should be happy and support Hello Games, because that shows to the other companies, that even if the first release of the game is bad, it is possible (and profitable) to keep making the game better.

Of course, if we lived in perfect world we could consider what HG is doing a bare minimum, but we live in a world where what they do is exceptional.

Also i strongly disagree about they doing minimun professionally. They have kept the now almost ten years old game playable, added vr, new console supports. If you want to see what minimal is take a look of Assasins Creed Unitys state in 2025.

I feel like i got it now. You want to add drama. You are the neighbor yelling over the fence, the one who seems to have something against the houses, even if it literaly does not effect on their life at all.

This is why i did not want to respond to your analogy from the beginning. It does not lead to anywhere as everything is makebeliview.

Facts.

The game is overwhelmingly positive status on steam. Recently almost 90% of the people are satisfied to the product.

Its player base keeps getting bigger.

The game is soon 10 years old, but it keeps getting updates.

Hello Games have been working on the game in the situation where industry standard would have been to stop.

Now now mr conspiracy theorists. We are not talking about yanks and their culture. We are talking about NASA.

The one agency in USA that is sience based, does most collaborations with other science based organisations and has done great scientific breaktroughs that has helped allmost every human on this planet and they have shared those findings

Think for a moment. If NASA was an integral part of american military development and filled with evil geniouses that want to subjucate rest of the world, why they are the agency that struggles the most to keep their funding and has been for years under the knive.

You know NASA was founded over a decade after Manhattan project right.

And that first ICBM came from the soviets, not from the USA. Also before NASA was founded.

Yeah! What usefull things NASA has done for human kind?!

Other than: Memory foam, Portable cordless vacuum, Freeze-dried food, CMOS image sensors, Light-induced oxidation air scrubbers, Weight-resistance exercise equipment, Water purification systems, Firefighting protective gear, Highway safety grooves, Image stabilization technology, Anti-icing aircraft systems, Scratch-resistant lenses, Infrared ear thermometers, Insulation materials (radiant barrier foil), Aerogel insulation products, Programmable heart pacers (derived control tech), LASIK eye-surgery mapping technology, Advanced prosthetics components, Shock-absorbing athletic shoe materials, Improved tire rubber compounds, Portable blood analyzers, Satellite-based weather data applications, Crop monitoring algorithms, Oil spill mapping technologies, Baby formula nutrient fortification (DHA/ARA research contributions)

People downvote you, but if i were hiring for a job with lots of wanting candidates and where one mistake has possibility of costing billions of dollars, i would too choose somebody who would know enough to recognize one of the more prevailing person on the field, or who would atleast have sense to look them up before starting dropping f bombs.

Or even more, one who does not drop f bombs at anybody.

If i must abide by your original metafora i would say:

They promised grandiose skycraper and delivered shotty apartment complex and the tenant who had bought the apartments were understandably angry. Very few of the tenants stayed anyway, but by all means the building was a failure to the point it would be completelly understandable to have the whole building just bulldozed.

But where most companies would just disbanded and or disapeared with the money, they kept working on the building. Added new floors, made the yard nicer, lowered the prices of the apartments and the whole time tried their best to keep the remaining few people living there happy. And after few years (decates really if you think how much faster gaming industry develops than housing) the place started to be closer what the original brochure said.

Eventually new people start to get intrested about the apartments and the people who originally bought the apartments started to move back in without paying any additional fees. And while the windows were little smaller and the shower tiling were little different than originally promised, people seem to like living there. In a way the constant repairs and the new additions to the place, make it even better to some people.

The point that makes that building special is that nine times out of ten, in these situations the tenants are left with unhabitable home or even closed down building. And even more often the tenants need to pay additional fees to acces the fixed parts of the building.

Is this purely genorosity from the builder? Of course not. They also have bills to pay and in the end its their livelyhood and they surely have investers waiting a return for their money. But is it monumental showing of backbone from the builder to not walk away from the project, but keep working on it. Absolutelly.

Why would you force other industry term on the gaming industry? Thats just silly. It like saying apple is a bad fruit because it makes for a lousy boat.

Gaming is pretty unique platform in a way where the product is measured by unquantifiable metric called fun, but you want to compare it in standards of other products.

In the end they kept working on a bad product where others would have stopped and ended making it good.

I fully get what you mean, but i also find it very rigid way of looking things.

At release no mans sky was basically a tech demo and cyperpunk was borderline unplayable game. Now if i would go to steam and bought either one of those games at full price i would get good ratio of fun/price and to me that is the important part of the game. How many hours of fun i get/ the amount of money i spend.

Both of those games could very well been abandoned after first few updates and left to be forever bad, like so many other games, but instead somebody high enough made the decition to keep working on it.

Yes its a shame the games dont have all the marketing promised to us and its even bigger shame the games were published in the shape they were, but now at year 2026 both of those games are worth of their price.

So in my mind the games have had a real redemption story.

Remember that at that point the game was allready 8 years old had had several large updates. Not counting few spikes from the updates first four years the game had under 2000 player/month in steam. Financially looking the pragmatic choice would have been to stop the development, but they did not.

There has been several games from big publishers that were abandoned shortly after release, even if it still was possible to fix the game. Battleborn, Anthem, Concord. And even more games that are still in theory playable, but are just full if bugs or not fun to play.

But so far i can think only three games that had bad start, but devs kept working on it and eventually managed to make fun games. No mans sky, Fallout 76 and Cyperpunk 2077

Protection of origin is different than trademarks. Its meant to represent the origin and the cultural value of product and product carrying the name must be made in a way and with the ingrediends that reflect the original.

Like anybody can make salad cheese, but its only feta when its made in Creese using lamb and goat milk.

Beside your generic trademark point is moot.

“Whether or not a mark is popularly identified as genericized, the owner of the mark may still be able to enforce the proprietary rights that attach to the use or registration of the mark, as long as the mark continues to exclusively identify the owner as the commercial origin of the applicable products or services.”