• 4 Posts
  • 229 Comments
Joined 2 years ago
cake
Cake day: June 17th, 2023

help-circle










  • Please take the time to read this, because you sound intelligent and like you give a shit about other people. I hope you can understand my perspective whether you agree. But I spent too long writing this, and nobody is clicking this deep, so this is all for you, Internet stranger (and hopefully new friend). So take the time to really think about this and not about how you’re going to respond. At the end you’ll even find an example of what taught me to listen to people even if I know I vehemently disagree but accept I’ll never change their minds.

    That’s the point of the below… Not to persuade you of an opinion (I haven’t even shared my opinions in here)

    Occupied West Bank and Gaza, and further settlement anywhere, are a different conversation than the existence of Israel, as well as whether it be in the Levant.

    You’re equivocating and intermingling what are two completely different concepts. And then intermingling your feelings and response.

    When I asked all my progressive friends and colleagues what we can do (this was like…3 yrs ago?), they just got downtrodden and didn’t have hopeful answers. (Sounds like what you’ve described as weird or I extrapolated as you suggesting “shifty”. I think they’re just shutdown by an emotional trigger (you said they hate the war… Good guys, right?) combined with not having anything helpful to say)

    They explain the conservative argument against Arab citizenship and voting rights is the resulting immediate “overthrow” of status quo bc of demographics, the subsequent changes to law, and the virtual destruction of Israel. They don’t like that hence preference to multi state.

    Perhaps you can challenge your intellectual biases and ask your friends directly about why they believe in the existence of “an” Israel or any Jewish state. That’s a completely different conversation for them that perhaps you haven’t seen that way.

    Are you pro choice? Have you argued with an anti choice person? It’s a fundamental belief to them that an embryo is a life. So your arguments don’t matter to them the way they do to you. If your friends fundamentally believe they need a home and they’re in one they have had and defended for nearly a century at this point, some Sephardim even longer, they can agree with a parallel of “the US stop invading Mexico” but not “the US should pack up and leave it’s land behind to the indigenous that have survived” (and even that gives grace bc not all Palestinians are generational like native Americans)



  • Every Israeli I’ve ever known born after 1980 has always supported multi state (typically a third for the Orthodox bc they’re tired of doing military service for religious scholars’ “safety”) and hates all of this. I worked in intelligence with hundreds of ex-IDF primarily special forces and cyber. They had me in tears pointing out and sharing their disgust with settlements lurking over every Arab or bedouin shack in the middle of nowhere. Netanyahu was hanging on by a thread to avoid the popular opinion that he should be in prison. This was his 9/11, WMD, moment.