Well, the majority still seems to be unhappy. I think it is mainly because I chose Linux as an example and it reads like I think that Linux is not secure software which is not at all what I intended to say and also (obviously?) not what I think is true.

I agree because it is exactly what my claim is. It would still be foolish to say that open source software is by design more secure than proprietary. I know that this is not what you said and you most likely also don’t mean that, but there are enough people who think that way because they read everywhere that OSS=secure software.

Your example with xz however does not really hold imo. The xz bug was not found because xz is open source but because someone realized, that their ssh session build up took longer than usual and they then used valgrind to check for issues and not because they looked in the source code. It wasn’t even really an easy to spot backdoor because it was a malicious compressed file that changed the build process while running the tests and injecting the actual backdoor in the compiled file. Therfore this would have been found with proprietary software with the same likelyhood.

And regarding my analogy: I also like it more when things are recyclable, that is also why I like open source software more and have more trust in it. But now that I think about it, that wasn’t the best analogy I could’ve chosen but it was the first thing that came to my mind.

Could we please stop associating open source with security? Don’t get me wrong, I love open source software and it is easier to trust open source software than proprietary, because it is highly unlikely, that they hide stuff like trackers in there. It is also most of the time highly configurable and sometimes even hackable and as a software developer you are able to look into the mechanisms behind the APIs which is sometimes really helpful.

But events like the lzma incident last year and predictable openssl RNG in Debian some time ago (https://lists.debian.org/debian-security-announce/2008/msg00152.html) should tell us, that open source doesn’t mean secure software. And the argument, that there are many people looking at the code is not really true. E.g. many maintainers of the linux kernel only look at specific parts/drivers in it and maybe into some other things they need for that. There are probably only a few people if any (apart from governments), that have read, understood and analyzed the linux kernel in its entirety with all the (open source) drivers built into it and all the possible combinations of configurations. And I don’t want to know how many have done all that for less popular projects. And even if that is done at some point for an upstream project, you would have to check the patches from your distro and if there are any do it all for yourself again. And when the next release arrives you would have to do all that in its entirety again (although with some head start) if a new version arrives (that has, say, at least a thousand lines of code changed, removed or added). And now think about how many big releases come with some software per year. And don’t forget to also include all the dependencies you have to check including the compiler and standard library of the language(s) used.

Of course it is easier to do all that for OSS as an outside party because you don’t have to decompile it, but it is still increadibly hard. And only to be easier to analyze for security risks doesn’t mean to be more secure just like packaging being recyclable doesn’t mean that it will be recycled.

Yeah, it really is more like google play store or shopping websites and similiar apps/websites (although there are some that have a better design I guess). I’m not really a fan of it either, but I guess people being used to those (which is probably the majority of the userbase of flatpak) feel more comfortable with it.

My guess with the difference between “trending” and “popular” is that the former means lots of recent downloads and the latter a lot of downloads in a longer timespan (e.g. a year or so)

What about the search bar at the top? It has category filters as well.

Just recently I have skill issue’d myself by doing git clean -rf in my home directory where my dotfiles live and therefore deleted all of my home files. I was tired and looked for a quick way to resolve my conflicts and made the stupidest mistake one can do: execute a command you do not really understand.

At least I know what it does now and now I also do hourly local backups of my files with cron and borg.

Those not using it are playing with their computers.

What is your definition of playing? I use it to code, access my server for some self-hosted services, do office stuff and sure, also for gaming and watching videos. Am I disallowed to wanting to develop at ease with a minimal setup compared to windows and avoid shit like forced cloud stuff because I am gaming on this os? Isn’t it my choice and compliant to free and open source software to have the freedom to use the OS one has the best experience with?

About the gaming stuff: As I have said, I am just currently converting to wayland, so I don’t know of issues because I haven’t tried linux native games extensively. Wine doesn’t have working wayland support but is still (in my short experience) working with xwayland. Linux native games I will try soon are Cassette Beasts, Stardew Valley and maybe Cross Code at some time, all actually native games.

Why do you think waypipe should be the most important thing? Sure remote graphical sessions are neat but there are only a few people who really need it or not? At least I do not see how this is really that beneficial on linux compared to just basic shell stuff that most people are using when doing something remotely. Maybe it is something that the big businesses are using but then there will probably be a discussion to really add it to the protocol directly (if that is even actually needed, waypipe is a software stack that works (with limitations) with the current protocol; wayvnc for wlroots-based compositors seems to work fine and gnome and weston also implement some kind of RDP)

Also, what do you mean “it is made for gamers who can’t be bothered to stand up for linux native games”? Are there actually that many issues with xwayland for native games until Wayland support is added, just like using the pulseaudio server for pipewire until pipewire is completely supported? I am currently slowly transitioning to wayland so I don’t know if there are actually any so please tell me if it is the case or if I am missing something.

They do not state that. In 5. : https://store.steampowered.com/privacy_agreement/

Ok so this will be the last comment on this thread, I just want to make one final thing clear and I suggest that we get out of our way afterwards.

I totally understand, that selling data to third parties is a bad thing, but even your cited site doesn’t claim, that valve sells one’s private data to third parties and their privacy policy also doesn’t state it (at least the german version I have read through), even more they explicitly state in 5. that they don’t sell data to third parties. They only state that they give it to third parties where they more or less have to.

Now one has to decide if they trust valve to hold on their own PP but that is always the case for every platform, even open source ones,because again, no one can easily verify, that they don’t do shady business with your data, because they won’t give you ssh access for obvious reasons.

Don’t get me wrong, I am pretty paranoid as well: I don’t use any Microsoft products anymore (except minecraft), I stay away from Meta and Google as well by using e.g. signal and matrix for communication and have lineage on my phone, I use noscript because I don’t trust every website’s JavaScript and host my own instances for gaming servers, git and other stuff on my netcup server.

But I step out at some point where convenience wins over more privacy and security. I don’t package and compile everything myself, have verified the souce code before myself, because I trust the maintainers. I don’t have a completely open hardware PC, where I have built and verified everything myself, because I trust chosen manufacturers that they haven’t tampered with it (and don’t have the time or even money to do that).

Ok so first of all, “everyone” is restricted to you and stappern. Now what’s the difference between you two? Stappern made actual good and valid points and got me convinced a bit more to stay away from steam as much as it is possible for me in my situation without even insulting me once. If you really think you could get others convinced of your opinion by just insulting them, then I think it would be cool for you to call you stupid.

And that the comparison between doing something that reduces your lifetime and overall quality of live vs. giving others the data they need to stay in compliance with the various legal systems and get you the things you bought WITH money (because you seem to also understand downloading foss software as buying), is so farfetched that it’s even crazy to come up with, should be clear.

Huh, didn’t know that there are workarounds for some games to get rid of DRM. Good to know.

Yeah ok, I understand that.

Yes, sorry, wasn’t well written.

The criticism itself is not. Throwing assumptions like “you are an addict if you continue to use this platform no matter what your reason is” (which is what I read out of this person’s comment) around is also not preventing anyone from enjoying things. I just thought that specifically this assumption was overshot and it read like a straight up insult. I do get it now at least a bit although especially because they just insulted me without any arguments, I still guess that they just insulted people and not gave them a diagnosis of an addiction.

Sad that you don’t even try to defend your view but rather resort to straight up insult me instead. That’s how we discuss in the internet nowadays.

Sure, I get that, but as I said, if you already “own” quite some amount of games on steam I think it’s reasonable to not have your money completely wasted by refusing to use steam at all. Social bindings are an “issue” as well. If the multiplayer game you want to play with your friends is for some reason bound to steam, then many will choose their friends over their privacy. And I think we all know how hard it is to get others away from their comfort zone. Same with the debate to get rid of Discord.

I do go with you, that nobody is stopping them using it. I was just pissed from the statement of the author of the comment, saying, if you don’t stop using it, you are just an addict. That is simply not true, because of the bullshit DRM, one is bound to the platform. I aswell try to get away from DRM as much as possible but I of course reject ditching Steam completely. I won’t throw away all the games I bought just to get rid of “spyware” or rather not-perfectly-privacy-friendly-marketplace-software using the horror DRM is.

And before you say: but it is open source!: Doesn’t hold the administrators back from still selling your data using software analyzing the database. And to give more examples what would be spyware with their definition:

• Any kind of online shop (credit card, address, mail etc)
• Any kind of forum that doesn’t somehow encrypt everything while still working as a forum
• Using the internet at all because your ISP has access to your IP at least

How about letting people enjoy things? If you don’t want to play games or have access to the biggest gaming library there is currently, then it’s fine, won’t blame you. People have the freedom to decide if they want to limit their privacy a bit (while things stated on that website like credit card, address, browsing history, chat logs and forum posts are like: no shit, they sell games, have an internal browser and chats and forums, of course they do that. And with that defenition, you are currently as well on a spyware platform, because your posts are saved unencrypted on your homeserver) to have access to their games where some have invested A LOT of money in, before knowing about such things.