probablyaCat

What a crock of shit. Practically every historian says it was caused by soviet policy. The only debate that occurs if whether it was due to stupidity or intentional genocide.

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I could keep going. Gonna tell me how the Holocaust was a lie too?

Ok let’s do some links
Holodomor

Chinese famine

Gulag

Homelessness in Russia

Continued

Woohoo both systems suck. You can actually believe that just because one system is bad, what is considered the opposite is also bad. Marx was not some omniscient doctor manhattan. He had some ideas. Some were good critiques on capitalist culture. Others were fantasy that do not function in the real world.

I’m sure there were extra houses after all those people that starved to death.

Yeah those soviets sure got rid of the homeless problem. Can’t be homeless when you were intentionally starved to death.

Someone peaking out a door at soldiers with a small black object? Well I dunno. Why would soldiers ever shoot in such a situation…

Ha I had this issue once upon a time too! And the one above with the wifi driver b43-fwcutter. Apparently not great laptop choices. The touchpad situation was awful, because the sensitivity was always insane. IIRC I had a way to slow it down, but then it was so so slow that I had to go over it like 30 times to get across the diagonal. Good times.

So are you arguing that both the governments of Israel and Palestine in no way represent the people they govern?

So again, the entire state of Israel? The ones elected in free and fair elections? Don’t get me wrong. I am not a fan of Likud and I loathe ben Gvir and Otzma Yehudit. Just all of it. And only Hamas. The group that won what was called a free and fair election by the EU and the Carter Center and continues to be ahead in opinion polling since they have stopped elections. What are you defining as “Israel the State”?

Why do you say Israel and Hamas? Not Likud. Not otzma Yehudit. Just Israel. All of Israel is an enemy? But only Hamas when it comes to Palestine. What about the PLO? Are they fine? Yesh Atid? Or is it really just only Hamas but all of Israel?

I hate the idea that older kids shouldn’t do it. Like I remember getting shit when I decided to be kid-like again at 15 after not having done it when I was 13 and 14.

Houses told me I was too old. And looking back now, as a parent of teens, and I wish they and their friends were just going out trick r treating. I will definitely encourage any kid I see. And at my age anyone under 26 is a kid, easily. I’d much rather kids do something communal and fun than just go out drinking. I’m sure that by the next Halloween when I was 16 I was probably doing something less good than asking for free candy.

If we want people to be communal, have fun, and be safe then we shouldn’t give them shit when they do that. So I don’t care if the old dude down the streets dons a skeleton costume and grabs a pillow case. If he has a costume, he gets candy. And anyone who tells me different will get called out for being a killjoy.

Honestly this is an awful situation. But the reason you don’t see more harsh criticisms from world leaders (and there have been criticisms and statements calling some of what they are doing as illegal) is because the world leaders know that they may need to same option if something similar happens to them.

Do you have a better suggestion for what Israel should do in order to respond. And saying “free Palestine” doesn’t count. They completely left Gaza and it got worse. I can’t stand Bibi, but he absolutely called it when they were planning to leave Gaza. The blockade of Gaza didn’t start until Hamas took over. And do recall Egypt is also blockading.

If Tijuana started launching rockets and attacked thousands of civilians in California, what do think the response would look like? Or if Morocco did the same to Ceuta?

I don’t see how this attack ends. I mean it has absolutely destroyed the chance for Gaza reps to be involved in peace talks. Not that there was much chance of that. Honestly, if I had to guess, Israel plans to wipe out all of the higher up Hamas this time in an attempt to bring Gaza back under the PA/Fatah.

But, given the situation is what it is, how do you think the Israeli government should respond?

Real funny way to say you would prefer to not see the other sides’ thoughts.

So I’ll make this one short. You said

Conquerors and colonizers (the British, but it applies to Israel as well) do not have inherent right to rule.

The thing is, there is no god (or natural law of the universe) given set in stone right to rule. But the de facto and often de jure truth is that historically they do. Human has functioned as such since the time when multiple species of humans existed.

This must be a neat little world you live in where world history doesn’t exist and norms of a time period weren’t real and didn’t matter. Hell, by your method of accounting, I suppose Europe needs to import about 330 million Americans.

I’m not supporting imperialism. It was an awful thing. The genocide of the natives in the Americas was absolutely despicable. The impact around the world was by and large awful for those being colonized. But Israelis are not colonizers in Israel. They have had a population there even under Muslim rule.

To actually want to find a peaceful resolution, you must start with an understanding of how the world actually works.

Country borders have been built. Having might did allow you to expand your empire since time immemorial. And the modern form of Israel came from fighting and diplomacy with the British, who had conquered that land. Israel legally established itself with firm borders just as the Palestinians were offered.

That is the real world. And that is the situation you must work with. Whether you think it is fair or not.

And whether or not you like it, both the west bank and Gaza (and much more) were ceded to Israel by the countries controlling those territories prior to the war. And Israel has also been willing to make land for peace agreements as it did with Egypt and the Sinai peninsula. Jordan and Egypt withdrew their sovereignty. Up until that time they could have also made Palestine an independent state. They didn’t.

With all of that being said, after many years of war of war and fighting and disagreements, Israel has become less diplomatic. Especially after the total demobilization of Gaza. Them leaving Gaza is what allowed this current attack to happen.

And the harsh truth is that the Palestinians could have a country rather quickly, but it would just be less than what they demand and want. They are in a weak bargaining position. Made weaker by the repeated attacks. But for all intents and purposes, Gaza has been a sovereign territory for 18 years. And they have done nothing in the name of peace.

It is long, complicated, and difficult. And I support the Palestinians getting their own sovereignty and nation. I support land swaps. But I also acknowledge the reality of the situation requires that the Palestinians give up on some things they have sworn to not give up on. Israel has not kept Muslims from visiting their holy sites, the way Jews were denied in spite of the agreements Jordan made with the UN. In fact, it was Jordanian(I believe) troops that would not allow me to visit inside the temple mount, because I’m not a Muslim.

Negotiations require flexibility. And while Israel has shown that flexibility with land swaps in exchange for the settlements, the other side doesn’t even want to be required to acknowledge Israel as having a right to exist. Border disputes happen all the time and are worked out in different ways, but very often one side can end up with less than they want. But isn’t that worth taking over the current situation?

Look up Martín Garcia island. Or the Andes boundaries. The Sverdrup islands. Hanish islands. The Baltic sea with Poland and Denmark.

Perhaps if the government of Gaza spent more on food and water than rockets and guns then the people would have more of it. They have the money to pay families of suicide bombers. They have money for arms. Yet it is Israel who is at fault. Israel withdraw from Gaza in an offering of peace and all Gaza did was become worse. And they didn’t storm an inhabited place. Look at the actual history of that region.

Hell even the al aqsa mosque that is “the third holiest site” was ignored and not maintained. Israel exist. It has a right to exist. Until Hamas and the PLO are willing to agree to that, their can be no peace. They are the ones who refused to accept any agreement that required them to accept Israel as a nation.

They literally did have the right. Just because you don’t like the way the world works didn’t make it not work that way.

Illegally took land given to them by the countries in control of that land after said countries lost a war against them? Do you even know the history of how Israel was given control over the territories?

If you really want to take issue with analogy comparison then the real problem is the original was fucking stupid. This isn’t punching. This is life and death. And the terrorists in Gaza are choosing death. What should Israel’s response be, in your opinion? Palestinian governments have consistently walked away from peace talks. Hamas has consistently used human shields. Used hospitals and mosques as bases for rocket launches. What do you think is a proper response?

Perhaps Israel should unilaterally define the borders, ask the world to recognize them, and hope that the group that has the destruction of Israel in it’s platform will accept that and stop attacking Israeli civilians?

Show me where I was wrong then.

I’m not selective. They had firm borders offered to them by the country in control of the territory at the time. Then they were attacked by bordering countries multiple times. Those countries lost. And yes Israel received help. Just like Ukraine now. And you should really look at how that military aid works. None of what I said was untrue.