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Joined 3 years ago
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Cake day: June 9th, 2023

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  • I see where you’re coming from and will do my best to clarify my position. I am going to distinguish between Explicit and Tacit consent, and Explicit and Assumed Knowledge. The reason I distinguish between Explicit Knowledge and Explicit Consent is that you can combine them in different ways:

    Yes Explicit Knowledge Yes Explicit Consent (interview)
    Yes Explicit Knowledge No Explicit Consent (bike thief being filmed)
    No Explicit Knowledge No Explicit Consent (Covert filming)

    In order to give Explicit Consent to being filmed you must first have Knowledge of being filmed. This might be someone who agrees to be interviewed on camera.

    The bike thief didn’t give Explicit Consent to be filmed, but did have Knowledge of being filmed. If they didn’t want to be filmed they could do something about it, such as leave the area, or confront the person filming. Because they didn’t take action to prevent themselves from being filmed despite knowing that it was happening, they gave Tacit Consent.

    You say that by this measure:

    Someone could stick a camera in your face and follow you around

    No, that’s called harassment and is a separate offence.

    The woman being covertly filmed doesn’t have the Explicit Knowledge that she is being filmed and so cannot give Explicit Consent. She is also unable to take any specific action against being recorded because she unaware that it is happening: the filming is covert. (You misread my previous comment, I was saying she could have done something if she had known).

    Here’s the catch: this is all happening in public, and there is no expectation of privacy in public. This is where Assumed Knowledge comes in. When you are in public you must Assume that you may be recorded. It may be by someone taking a selfie, or filming ducks in the park, you may never see them. This isn’t Covert, because you Know it may be happening (and if you see people filming or taking photos you can then deny Tacit Consent by not walking into their photo).


  • That’s where I made the distinction in my original comment between consent and knowledge. In the scenario in the article the woman being filmed had no knowledge that she was being filmed and was therefore unable to provide informed consent to the interaction. If she had known that she was being filmed, she could have walked away, or altered the way in which she approached the interaction. In the videos that I linked in my other comment everyone on camera knew that they were being recorded and were therefore able to decide if they wanted to consent to the interaction. Apart from possibly the cat.



  • Yes CCTV in public is not inherently evil, where it is obvious and not hidden. What I was talking about though was the right of the public to photograph and film in public spaces. Without that right there would be no street photography, no citizen journalism exposing police abuse of power, no youtubers making videos about strange and interesting things in public, no footage of people committing crimes in public, no videos of cats in Istanbul. This (and more) is what would be lost if we ban cameras from public places.

    When authorities abuse their power the only protection is evidence and public backlash. The best evidence is video evidence. That’s why the police wearing body worn cameras is a good thing, it means the public can hold them to account if they misbehave.

    There is a big difference between passive CCTV (recordings can be accessed if needed) and active CCTV (continually scanned by AI combined with facial recognition). I do think that unless there is serious pushback against facial recognition it will be increasingly implemented, despite the risks, however your worries about the police scanning your facial expression and sending plain clothes officers after you are completely unfounded and a little bit unhinged.