Regular reminder that being an asshole is not a symptom of any form of neurodivergence. (You can replace “neurodivergent” with depressed, anxious, bipolar, etc. and the diagram works equally well)
ETA: social faux pas, awkwardness, and genuine symptoms of neurodivergence don’t make you an asshole. I shouldn’t have to say this? An “asshole” is someone who enacts a pattern of abusive, controlling, harassing, and/or harmful behavior with no remorse or concern for how other people are affected.
I’m pretty sure it is a symptom of BPD.
Elon Musk.
Hell in the UK we had the (ex?) host of MasterChef, Greg Wallace, accused of being inappropriate with women in the workplace and making them feel unsafe and uncomfortable around him - Nothing illegal (that I know of), sure, but enough that he was rightfully dropped from whatever broadcaster was employing him.
Cut to a week into the tabloid media meltdown, Greg claims he “thinks he’s on the spectrum” as an explanation for his sexually explicit and creepy behaviour around women. The usual shit where you’re neuro typical until you’re a prick then you’re actually an autistic smol bean uWu.
When that didn’t help, he then showed his true colours by claiming the “typical” kind of woman (I’m assuming he’s referring to the trope of “ugly” women complaining about sexual harassment) making the complaints that got him fired.
Yeah I’ve got plenty of issues but I manage to not be a dick, kinda feels like those are separate categories as far as the whole mental space goes.
Neurodivergent people: Trying their best to fit into society
You: Fuck those assholes.
As someone who is neurodivergent and operates at an engineering level, when I’m under pressure I can sometimes be an asshole unintentionally. I try my best to recognize when I do this and apologize when I can. It’s not something I can help. It’s impulsive which means it’s hard to control.
Here you are telling everyone that I am not deserving of compassion or understanding and should be written off as an asshole.
Do you know what it’s like being neurodivergent? How people treat you when they find out? I now have to be on my best behavior at all times or I could get labeled an asshole and therefore deserve nothing according to you.
Sometimes mental illness is like having a stab wound in your gut and you have to act like everything is fine. It’s not always possible in all situations.
To say this post lacks awareness is an understatement.
Everyone is trying their best, even neurotypicals.
Doesn’t give you a free pass.
Neurodivergence is not metal illness. You can not “cure” what is not broken. Trying to do so is what causes serious childhood trama. Neurodivergence is tied to communication differences and a differences in how the brain works.
For more information look up the double empathy problem.
Man I got NPD and even I would find it weird for people to like me just because they know I have NPD like you don’t gonna deal with the shit, if they can’t help being assholes then step it up
Sorry but I don’t understand what you are saying with your first point. Is your second point literally “you need to step up your mental illness game?”
I have an overwhelming urge to shop now.
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You do not have to be friends with anyone! :D
I thought what we had was special 😢
It’s exactly why I do not present any of the mental psychological isms my therapist gave me to other people. I’ve seen loads of folks who pretty much brag about these things—using them as excuses to be shitty or negligent people with no attempt at learning or practicing social skills. I run like the wind anytime I hear someone brag or lament (usually just a backdoor brag) that they are “empathic” or “highly sensitive.” I’m very cautious around people who bring up their “ADHD,” “anxiety disorder” or “autism”—especially if they do it regularly, publicly (on social media), or very early upon meeting them. And don’t get me started about personality disorders. I know people who are legitimately trying their best with all these things, but the genuinely responsible and aware folks seem to rarely wear those as kind of strange badges of identity.
It’s funny, because a common symptom of ADHD is oversharing, especially early on in a relationship when it’s less appropriate. This doesn’t make them an asshole, of course.
And for me it’s a way of communicating “hey, sometimes I’m gonna not think before speaking or lose attention mid conversation or something else, this isn’t me intentionally being disrespectful and I am trying not to, but sometimes I’m gonna fail so please don’t take it as a slight”
When they ramble on about something you don’t care about or actively don’t want to discuss, say “Hey I don’t like this conversation, can we talk about something else?”
Yellow: “Oh sorry, I didn’t mean to make you uncomfortable.”
Red: “What? Why don’t you wanna talk about this, is it because you secretly hate me or are hiding something? Now I know we need to talk about it until I’m convinced you’re hearing what I have to say on this topic.”When I realize I’m dominating a conversation I will try to give other people space to talk and also let them know they can tell me to shut up. I won’t take it too personally.
Even if you let them know they can say shut up whenever, they likely won’t. The best bet is to do the first option all the time, because even with permission, most people still wouldn’t do it though they may want to.
When they ramble on about something you don’t care about…
Or, hear me out, you could listen to them infodump because it will make them happy?
Reminds me of once when a friend told me a story how someone watched his dick when he was peeing. When he got angry someone calmed him by sayong “Don’t worry, he is just gay.”
Yeah, why does this make sexual harasment any better?
I was in a coffee shop a few years ago and a guy in line was wearing an O.G.R.E. shirt, a way old computer game from 1986.
I said “Nice shirt! Never played that game, though.”
Completely delighted, he ranted about his love for the game until my order was ready. And it was a bit hard to get away from him afterward.
This is definitely someone who could’ve fallen into that category.
But I don’t see it that way because I’m also neurodivergent and know people never engage with us like that. Might have made his day.
Just a little story from that borderline in the Venn diagram.
I didn’t think anyone would have considered that asshole behavior. Annoying, maybe, but that doesn’t come across as mean.
I think a better example would be something like a coworker saying “You said you’d send me that information yesterday” which can be interpreted as “hey can you send me that information you mentioned?” OR “hey fucko, you lied to me”
Sounds like you touched on their special interest. You almost certainly made their day, even if you felt a little awkward. I have autism and my special interest has changed several times, but that passion usually remains (especially if it lasted for a year or longer). It’s taken my entire adult life to figure out when people no longer care
This is just an ad for MasterCard; change my mind.
You got me. Mastercard: the credit card for neurodivergents, assholes, and everything in between
“There are some things money can’t buy. For everything else, there’s neurodivergence.”
I have, like, three stacks of neurodivergence, but I also have some sense of altruism and am aware of my limitations. So, in order to avoid imposing myself too much on people and ending up as an involuntary jerk, I just avoid interacting with others as much as possible, just in case.
I wish you would be friends with me instead
“I don’t care what’s wrong with you. If you’re an asshole, you’re an asshole”
This has stuck with me for about 15 years now. A neurodivergent stage crew member who was consistently an asshole was being an asshole again, so this other kid just yelled at him and told him off. Everyone in the room gave him the shocked Pikachu face because he yelled at the ND kid. Someone said “dude, you cant yell at him” and then he laid down this quote.
Something many groups need to hear, not just the ND crowd.
Damn right.
The sentiment is right, but using the phrase wrong with you, might be a little harsh. There’s nothing wrong with them, they are who they are.
None of that excuses being an asshole though.
Wrong with you would be more like if they’re going through a breakup and they aren’t themselves, or going through grief over something etc.
But directed at a ND person where it can come off as being about their ND isn’t good.
Edit: “I don’t care what’s going on with someone, if they’re an asshole they’re an asshole” would be a better option
I don’t go around as a 30 something saying the words of a 15 yr old. Yes it is not as tactful as it should be and I understand the nuance but the idea is the same and I’m not going to change what happened.
I’m not going to change what happened.
Thats also fair. It’s a story you’re telling and it’s what happened.
Don’t yell at people. The right answer is to tell them that they are a problem privately.
@5oap10116 @isaaclyman Being diagnosed with all kinds of crap before they finally settled on AuDHD, I’ve always sworn by “Diagnosises can be an explanation but never a shield.”
Own your shit.
I agree but would qualify my agreement with a note:
Some of our neurodivergent traits come across as assholeish or rude behavior and while most of us try and temper and mask it does slip out especially in high stress situations.
Intention matters.
I think it’s my responsibility to explain to coworkers and make super sure they understand how I am especially after a high stress event (for me that’d likely be a server outage in production).
Intention matters.
It matters up to a point where the negatives outweigh the good intentions, same as everyone else.
This is true! But there’s a very easy way to tell the difference.
When you find out you hurt someone’s feelings, do you apologize, express how terrible you feel about it, and try to do better? Not an asshole.
Do you double down, make excuses, and blame them for feeling bad? Asshole.
Saying the wrong thing doesn’t make you a jerk. Not caring about other people’s feelings, does.
You’re still making it a bit too easy for you. “Not caring about other people’s feelings” is very close to “Not able to understand why somebody reacts and feels a certain way” but is definitely not the same thing.
I’m a parent to (at least one diagnosed so far) autistic child and there are plenty of situations in which this very kind, friendly and empathic person is simply unable to understand why one of the other siblings reacted as they did. Has nothing to do with whether they care or not.
OK, but being able to understand the reasons why a person is upset is irrelevant to how you respond when you’re made aware that your actions upset them.
Again, if you apologize and try to understand your mistake, you’re not an asshole.
“Not understanding other people’s feelings” is called lacking empathy, which is a common autism symptom. I’m saying this because it seems like you might be confusing “empathy” with caring about people, a misconception which harms people who lack empathy.
That’s an old misconception. Autistic people don’t lack empathy any more than neurotypical people. Autistic people may not react the way a neurotypical person expects somebody with empathy to react, but that doesn’t mean there’s no feeling of empathy. Sometimes we can easily understand someone’s feelings, but still not know what we’re expected to do in response to that information.
This is valid criticism and I’m going to sit with it.
All the same, most of the (adult) autistic folks I’ve known in my life have been quick to apologize and take responsibility, even when other peoples’ reactions don’t make sense to them.
Absolutely. Part of masking is to emulate behavior you’ve observed even though you don’t understand it.
The child in question often need us parents to point out what happened and then they’re able to say the correct things. What I meant was that it’s not obvious to them that someone got offended - at all - to begin with.
Well said and point well taken.
I always encourage people to communicate, gently and clearly, what the other person did that was hurtful. I have so much empathy for people who are clueless (hi, hello, it’s me). But no empathy at all for people who callously, intentionally harass and hurt others.
Do you double down, make excuses, and blame them for feeling bad? Asshole.
I often inconvenience people in a particular way. (I’m very frequently late.) I apologize a lot but then I keep doing the same thing. It’s really hard for me not to, I get why this frustrates people, and I don’t blame anyone who refuses to put up with the inconvenience. However, people often assume that I keep inconveniencing them because I don’t respect them, and I want them to understand that that’s not what’s going on.
Hey that’s valid! A good friend of mine has the exact same thing. He’s up front about it, he apologizes when it’s excessive, and he’s more than happy to explain why it’s difficult for him. It’s just a thing, and if I’m going to be his friend, that means accepting it about him.
In other words, he’s done his best to help me understand him. Now it’s my turn to not be an asshole.
There’s absolutely a point where I’m not going to mask for the sake of social niceties. I try my best to not be a jerk though, but there are so many situations where I’ve been called rude for not following the NT script. For example, stopping someone, saying I don’t want to have a conversation right now, and walking away. Not an excuse to avoid difficult talks either, just when it’s a convo about whatever random thing and I don’t have the capacity to listen.
The tough part is people hide when they’re offended, so you can’t even avoid doing the same faux pas in the future.
They just gossip behind your back about you being a jerk. Problem solved!
Preach
