In China, you can’t exist without a smartphone, because for all existential things you have to do (paying bills, buying tickets etc.) , you are forced to use the almighty wechat app. Smartphones are a tool to manipulate and to spy on the population. It is a tool utilized by the ruling class, to control the masses. I hate the future and I hate “progress”.
The thing that is bothering me right now is seeing “cashless” establishments. Frankly, it’s kind of discriminatory, and I do not know how you can justify denying people goods and services if they are carrying the currency of the country they live in. That does not sit right with me.
San Francisco made it illegal for public facing businesses to be cashless. They deem it discriminatory towards people who aren’t able to get credit cards.
Is it even legal to be cashless? What happened to “this note is legal tender for all debts, public and private"?
The key word is debts. When you want to buy something in a store, you owe money if you want it, but you have not incurred a debt. You can just not buy it. You and the seller start at an even place, trade goods/services for money, and end even. If you have a debt, you’re starting the transaction at a negative place and are trying to get back to even.
If one were to consume the product before getting to the register, is it then considered a debt? Asking for a friend that is going to get some beer.
No, that’s technically stealing. It would be a debt if they agreed in advance to give you an interest-free loan of the beer while in the store.
Dang, they thought of everything!
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Thats the norm in Sweden, most places these days no longer accept cash.
I’m not familiar with payment-related laws in Sweden so I can’t really comment, but sure if that’s how they’re set up legally that’s fine, i still think it’s not right unless the means for payment is readily accessible for every person.
If it’s a private business then that’s their choice. It’s your choice to not give them your $. I don’t see how that’s discrimination? If they have something that you really want, then you’ll choose a cashless option.
There are two problems with this logic. 1: it is actually debatable if it is their right. I can’t take you to civil court if I’m claiming you won’t pay for something as you stand there waving the money in front of my face.
2: at no point was I talking about legal rights. I am saying what does not sit right with me.
There’s always this particular tone when people come in rushing to the defense of corporations with “it’s a private business they can do what they want.“ But I often find the same people get angry when corporations run certain kinds of marketing campaigns or are outspoken on a social or political issue. Suddenly they want the government to step in/corporations need to adhere to “the rule of law” or whatever.
Either way, if you don’t see how it could be discriminatory, then I advise you to talk to low income earners and ask how many of them have credit cards they can actually use.
How many homeless people do you think have a line of credit? Are they simply not allowed to buy a bottle of water anymore?
This isn’t about the rights of a business. This is about prioritizing their preference - not a need - over the needs of actual human beings in a very flagrant way. That really does not make sense. USD actually has this printed right on it (for debts public and private or whatever the exact wording is). To not accept cash is incredibly questionable to me, both legally and ethically.
On this front. If you owe them money, they must accept cash. This is why people can pay thousands of pennies at tow yards. Or if you eat at a restaurant and they bring the bill, they can’t then say they’ll only take card, they must accept the cash.
Physical money is “…legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues.” Notice that purchases/private charges or trades are not included in that.
That’s interesting. It led me to the Fed site (looking into the details here) and it does turn out there are no federal (but there are state and municipal laws) about accepting/refusing cash. TIL
How many have debit cards though?
Initial googling shows roughly 4.5% of the population has no bank at all.
Regardless, cashless has too many issues and - whether or not it’s intentional - often ends up being discriminatory. The legality of it is very questionable.
Wow, that’s pretty crazy to think that so many people can’t/won’t get a bank account. Are these people undocumented immigrants with no identification? Is this the same part of the population that is targeted by the ID laws for voting?
How are those people getting money? Is it really possible in the USA to just be paid with an envelope of cash? Or is it under the table work? Or if they are poor, is there any kind of benefit/welfare from the government? Don’t they need a bank account to receive those funds?
I’m just asking because in my country, I was able to open a bank account for free. I’ve had it for a year and I’ve never even deposited any money into it. But I have a debit card for that account. It seems impossible to me to have no access to a bank account. Even if you’re homeless, you’re still able to use your town hall as a contact address for official things.
Banks in the US are tricky business sometimes. They often want a lot of info (understandably) but someone does not have a home may not be able to provide some of it. They may not have a phone number, they may not have an address, they may not have either. Could also be undocumented individuals are part of it, I’m sure they factor in. Maybe someone decided to go “off grid” and stop using anything connected to the government they can and is now a mattress stuffer lol. Point is cash should always be acceptable outside of edge cases IMO.
Yes but it’s very mediocre generally unless their state/city has invested more into social programs, which is the exception and not the rule in the US. In my state unemployment insurance (welfare) is I think…237.00/wk so not even $1,000/mo (haven’t been on it in a few years now forgot exact number).
Mom and Pop store shouldn’t be forced to pay for a cash register and a safe. Nor face an increase possibility of robbery looking for cash.
Now, instead of homeless hanging out by the entrance/exit begging for change, they can hang out and beg a customer to take their $2 cash to buy them water.
They’re not being banned from buying something they might need. They just need to be more creative.
I never like the propping up of “mom and pop operations” to make statements about businesses writ large. My local brewery doesn’t need to be cashless. They are a multi-state multi-million dollar operation. They can handle some cash.
Of course you don’t like an example that goes against your bs narrative.
Many places around the globe have been moving toward cashless purchasing. Hell, you can walk into some Whole Foods and walk out without any type of transaction. If you don’t think that level of interaction will become more wide spread… you seriously need to pull your head out of the sand.
I’m not sure what this is in response to? I never said it wasn’t happening - quite the contrary. I’m saying it’s a trend I don’t like and I laid out why. Are you sure you’re responding to the right person?
Bottom line is IMO it certainly isn’t discrimination. Homeless person with enough cash for a bottle of water that only has a cashless option can try to exchange their cash for someone to make the purchase. Now, if they have a hard time finding someone, you could argue that individual people that won’t help are being discriminatory.
“It isn’t that we built a system that specifically punishes and prohibits the poor and homeless. It’s those darned lazy people who won’t jump through the hurdles we installed to help them.”
A lot of individuals, groups, and governments disagree with you.
Oh come on man, this is america. No one is going to do that for those who need it, i know you don’t believe that.
Homeless people usually only have cash. The kinds of places that are cashless usually don’t have goods at prices a homeless person would be purchasing something at but you can see how it’s a concerning trend. And I’m sure privacy minded individuals would prefer to use cash when possible
Alright, everything you said makes sense. That might even be how it is supposed to work. But I don’t like it regardless that legal tender won’t be accepted by a merchant. It feels like a corporation having a chokehold on what you buy and from where, and instant knowledge of people’s spending habits.