Article for context:https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/12/23870522/iphone-15-pro-max-thread-smartphones (Ik that I am talking about multiple companies when I refer to android companies but many singular companies make more innovations in the phone space compared to apple)
I’m surprised that this whole “android vs apple” thing is still going on…
At least it’s not Windows vs. Apple anymore
Wish it was. The Linux community shitting on Windows is worse.
why is that? it’s not punching down when its a billion dollar company
edit: no coherent thoughts then? just mindless downvoting? well you’ve convinced me with that persuasive logic.
it’s genuinely concerning to see the microsoft stockholm syndrome in the wild, but on lemmy it’s honestly baffling.
I’ll bite, I down voted you because I think you’re missing the point of what the above commenters are talking about. It’s not about whether it’s punching down/up to criticize Microsoft.
why is that? it’s not punching down when its a billion dollar company
I’ll bite, I down voted you because I think you’re missing the point of what the above commenters are talking about. It’s not about whether it’s punching down/up to criticize Microsoft.
It literally started with a question.
why is that?
As yet noone has even answered that question.
Why is it worse? You’ve gone to the trouble to downvote, and reply, yet still haven’t answered the question.
Tbh most partisan camp debates in technology are pretty tiresome: ios vs android, playstation vs xbox. They all have pros and cons.
(Even linux and windows both have their pros and cons.)
That said, there’s a huge difference between comparing two commercial products both from competing companies vs a powerful open source tool, with almost limitless potential. Virtually ANY complaint you have about linux CAN be fixed by the public, even YOU if you put in the appropriate effort/resources.
The fact that you can freely boot into modern hardware with something offering that kind of power & freedom openly to the public is frankly incredible.
So tbh it’s pretty difficult to see why it is worse.
You’ve answered the question yourself. It’s just tiresome. It’s so exhausting to see time and time again. It’s not like it makes it not tiresome just because it’s punching up to criticize Microsoft. It’s a subjective thing, clearly some people don’t think it is tiresome so they continue to gripe about it.
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Sometimes it just comes down to preference. I like Linux a lot for systems where I need the low overhead. But on my gaming PC, where I don’t have to worry as much about overhead, I prefer the convenience of not having to learn SSH commands or open source workarounds.
Microsoft is like the rich guy with the nice pool. Its looks nice. But then you learn they got rich by cutting corners and screwing over your friends. And are actively investing in making the public pool shit so they can grandstand their pool.
Noone is blaming you for going up to the rich guys pool to have a nice easy time. Or at least, I’m not defending the kind of linux zealots who might blame you for choosing that
But I equally believe it is right and fair for us to have the freedom to state the very valid reasons why we are choosing not to go up there.
Still though, this is conflating Windows and Microsoft. This conversation started about Linux users shitting on Windows, not Microsoft. I think Windows is decent at providing a relatively low effort experience while I also agree that Microsoft is guilty of all the typical practices of corporate greed.
I don’t buy Microsoft products anymore for that reason, but I still use them (if you catch my drift).
it’s hardly a conflation, this hostile modus operandi is baked into the windows product itself with malicious and intrusive features. i’m not sure if this is news to anyone, but those user-hostile features were added to windows by microsoft. and the best defense offered thus far for that is basically “most or all tech giants do it too” - yes, thankyou that’s exactly our point. the fact that shipping this kind of abusive software has been normalised is part of the problem too.
i agree in as much as not everything about windows is bad. and it can be useful sometimes out of necessity. though its worth remembering that necessity may often be the result of hostility on microsoft’s part, either past or present. so it’s not really possible to have an honest conversation about what windows is, without an awareness of how microsoft has maliciously managed our perception of desktop operating systems in general. happy to explain what i mean by this in more detail if anyone’s interested.
and also agreed, i’d never pay for it.
linux zealots who might blame you for choosing that
I’ll defend them. Like pushing for vegan diets, solar energy, and the end of single use plastics. It’s annoying, it’s not fun but in the long run it’s to make the world better for average people.
The ship has sailed there. Microsoft aren’t going anywhere soon and in the long run they will continue to win.
There are plenty of good causes which I hypocritically agree with and don’t put into practise, eating meat is bad for me and the planet but I’ll still enjoy a steak without feeling like a villain believe it or not.
Blaming someone for choosing Microsoft is a dick move, Linux doesn’t work for everyone (I.e. non tech people) so what should they (myself included) be doing instead in your opinion?
The whole system needs to fail before a company like Microsoft loses, if that happens great. But until then me want play new games, me not know Linux tech, me use bad guy company to enjoy me time. Most importantly, me don’t feel bad for doing it.
Seriously though, I pick my battles and try to not be evil while doing so. Microsoft selling an extra copy of windows once every 10 or 15 years won’t turn them into our all powerful overlords and it’s the easiest way for me to enjoy my free time, and on balance I’m fine with that.
Your idea of making the world a better place is bullying people into submission? Something doesn’t quite add up there. 🤔
Im mixed because on one hand, you dont want a “crazy lady in the attic”. (we feed her and don’t talk about her) to fix that you must be intolerant to the intolerant. (in this case, you want to be against intolerance for people who are running windows) Its uncomfortable because it feels like your attacking yourself.
You know that on Windows you then don’t have ssh in the first place? Its like deinstalling ssh on Linux… It would be the same. It don’t understand your point with ssh.
My lack of understanding of your sentence is exactly why I’ll never bother with Linux. It may be amazing and triple my PCs speed but I simply don’t have time (or motivation) to learn the vocabulary, let alone how things actually work.
Windows may be worse than Linux, but I can install it and be playing any game I want within a few hours with no research. I just cba with anything that I have to think about for more than 2seconds when I want to use my PC, it exists for me to kill time (and occasionally various admin tasks) and I don’t have any need to complicate life further by using Linux and having to keep up with the latest ssh or whatever you’re talking about.
honestly, do what makes you happy. I may eat and breath Linux but its my choice. yours is valid too. I disassociate from anyone who attack people and not their OS’s issues. there are people who just want to make hardware and software better, (FSF is hard to advocate for but I generally do), the losers who verbally harass people for not using Linux are culturally destructive (especially to Linux).
Actually… I know you have no knowledge. But to explain to you how nonsese it is.
On Linux you have a greater experience of plug and play. You just open the store app and install any application you want. Done. Not sure why you need to learn any vocabulary and not sure why you think you need that after I said that you don’t need it. Its all GUI. Games just install and work. You only need to have Steam or Lutris. Faster to install Games than on Windows tbh.
On Windows you need to search the whole web through fake ads and non official fake apps to get what you want. At worse, malware is installed within seconds.
Windows ships with SSH.
No, only Windowd 10 Pro afaik. But maybe I am indeed wrong
You’re in the wrong part of the internet, bud.
What an unsurprising outcome, it’s almost like this is exactly the kind of unwarranted hostility the original comment alluded to. The most ironic part is I use Linux too.
I have just as much right to be here and to say my piece as you do.
You’re at +23 lol
40ups and 16downs
Tbh I’m a bit disappointed, the influx of new users is great. It’s great people are leaving closedsource places and enjoying free and opensource places like lemmy.
Its good seeing new faces and making new friends.
And I get they’ll inevitably bring some of that default “closed is better than open” mindset with them.
Its just disappointing when given the opportunity to learn a bit more about the world of open freedom, instead of considering maybe there might be something new they could learn and potentially enjoy.
Instead they try to drown us out with mindless and (mostly) unsubstantiated downvotes.
And it often turns out to be people who inevitably declare they don’t know how to use linux or couldn’t get it working properly.
So WHY is it when someone admits they don’t really understand the topic, do they think they’re the right person to vote on the legitimacy of the claims being made???
Why are yoy replying me
Hey, we gotta poop somewhere!
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Our Metabolism is just very performant. Must be running Linux :D
“Nah bro, trust me, once I finally compile my Gentoo build it’s gonna be waaaaaaay better than Windows.”
cue immediate crashing of Gentoo client
Should’ve used Arch, smh. /s
some is warranted, some is not, both sides have a copium dealer, mine is down the street from me.
The whole green vs blue bubble thing has to be the most idiotic debate I’ve ever seen in my life. At least here people seem to be comparing real features, but still just buy whatever has what you want. Especially when iPhone 15 comes out with USB-C charging.
I’d argue that all phone innovation has been pretty stagnant or even regressive lately. I think the only feature that’s been released by anyone lately that I’ve wanted my phone to have has been the magnet on the back to make mounts and wireless chargers less complicated. How it took these companies that long to put a magnet back there is beyond me. Then Apple “innovated” by removing the headphone jack so they could make more money selling wireless headphones after they bought Beats and for who knows what reason, all of the android phone makers eventually followed. I can see the use of a foldable screen, but I’m not buying one until it doesn’t add a permanent crease down the middle of my unfolded screen. If someone releases a privacy focused phone that’s not tied to Google with four years of guaranteed, timely updates, has a big enough screen with no notch, headphone jack, and magnet on the back they can have my money.
I could argue several reasons to avoid a folding phone. The crease isn’t one of them. Yes, I feel it while swiping across the screen, but it’s so unnoticeable while using the phone, it’s a non-issue.
- Fold owner
Mind elaborating on those reasons? I’m also a Fold owner and I love it more than any other phone I’ve ever owned. If there are cons that I’m missing, I’d like to know before I go buy another one of these in a year or two.
The Internal screen is fragile. It’s softer than finger nails, so need to be careful about it. The screen protector doesn’t last a year in most cases. The hinge can get debris in it that will start causing problems. It’s narrow, but it’s definitely a thick phone. It’s heavy too. Software is a hit or miss on what can handle the screen basically changing size and shape on it.
That being said, I can’t go back to using a normal phone. The large display is just too good to give up.
Lol these are all just hallmarks of Samsung well established reputation of quality, it is the shittiest company in that regard. They are innovative though!
Honestly, between my work phone which is a Pixel 6 Pro, and my Fold, Samsung is superior in both hardware and software.
I can see that for sure
I didn’t realize that. All the display models I’ve seen have been off and it’s very prevalent. I’d also question the durability of the hinge (but I guess it’s not much different than a flip phone) and how the OS is set up to handle it.
On display you’ve got it bashed by turbo bright florescent or LED retail lights, same as on review videos. In real life you just almost never have that environment, and almost never notice it.
The hinge is probably the most sturdy thing on the whole phone, more than the screen itself. If you’re around a lot of sand or pocket dust, maybe this isn’t the right phone or you need to be careful about cleaning the gaps regularly, but otherwise that’s not a problem
The OS let’s you run up to 5 apps simultaneously, split screen or floating, with two different navbars to call them up. It’s honestly the best multitasking on a mobile device period
They’re not the right device for everyone, but they’re much more ready for normal use than most people think
Oh for sure, turn off the display and the crease is right there. Now turn it back on, sure I can spot it still, but I’m looking for it. Start watching a YouTube video or use apps, you will forget it’s even there.
Nobody put anything on the back because of wireless charging.
The wireless magsafe charging works fine though.
As long as you avoid the charging coil, you’re fine. Magsafe is literally just Qi charging + magnetic ring.
Yup, I don’t know why it took them so long to add magnets.
Essentials Phone was a promising innovator. Wireless USB magnetic interface on back. They released a 360 camera and a digital anolog jack…then then bankrupcy
What the fuck is a thread radio
There’s a new protocol for smart home devices called Matter, that let’s them work across ecosystems (so for example smart lights set up with Google Home could be controlled through Apple HomeKit via Matter). Thread is part of how Matter devices communicate with each other (instead of e.g. WiFi or Bluetooth). The new iPhones can directly use Thread instead of needing another devices to act as a bridge to “translate” the commands
A fairly niche addition, but definitely not useless. And a big plus for those into smart home stuff
I think it’s more useful than those glyphs on the nothing phone. They’re just a gimmick to sell a mediocre mid-end phone
Eh not really if you’re actually using mesh networked smart home devices that run on zigbee/thread/wave/matter or whatever you’re using some kind of controller with one of those radios in it. Using your phone as the only controller basically means you’d only be able to control/talk to those devices when your phone is on and at home, so forget any kind of automations if you’re not around. If you already have a controller, it’s most certainly networked so having a matter radio in your phone is basically pointless.
Yeah it is a wierd flex I’ve been trying to wrap my head around.
I’m kind of wondering if this move is just a data grab. Matter gives controllers a lot of insight into how smart products are used. Only iPhone in the house is for your teen so they don’t have that “dreaded” green text? As soon as you let them on your Matter network as a controller they now know when you turn your lights on and off, lock your doors, etc.
Thing is, this doesn’t (or at least shouldn’t) require a Thread radio. A controller on the phone can still get this info so long as one border router exists in the Thread PAN on the same network as the phone.
Everything is encrypted in Matter so you would have to be a controller to get any good data. With that, I doubt its just for passively farming packets over the air.
I guess it could be used to control devices remotely during a network outage if one person with an iPhone is home since its a local only protocol.
The radios are cheap enough that I guess they could be just throwing it in there without a great use case to generate buzz. Cost of radios is a drop in the bucket for most marketing budgets.
Head scratcher for sure.
Notably the homepod mini had thread radios and could act as a thread router as one of the earliest devices out there, might be that apple is going to push harder for this and has plans for it’s own thread enabled Smart Home products.
Huh. Did a little reading and it honestly does sound pretty useful. I’m not crazy about the corporate sponsorship of the consortium but there’s a lot of open source licensing to promote adoption so it’s not all bad. Neat. I could get behind doing a couple little custom home automation projects using that kind of network.
Why would I want a folding phone? I want my phone to be as rigid as possible.
Hiding the front cameras is the only real innovation I guess, but Oneplus managed it in 2019 with the 7 Pro so it’s not exactly a recent innovation.
Cause having a tablet in your pocket is awesome and comes in useful regularly
Being able to use your phone with multiple screen sizes and formats depending on what you’re doing.
Also: being able to put the phone at 90degs and use it as either a camera or flash light stand.
I’m carrying a tablet everywhere I go because I edit a lot of photos. A folding phone would save 400 grams in my sling
Ah maybe that makes sense in your use case then, yes. Personally I need a physical keyboard and a full feature OS so a laptop is unavoidable.
Folding phones would make sense if I could fold/unfold them twice and get 4x the space with same aspect ratio, transforming a phone into a tablet. Otherwise it’s just a gimmick and waste of money. I know some people might praise these for multi-tasking but I can’t see myself doing two things at the same time on a freakin’ phone (maybe except reading a book in foreign language and using a dictionary at the same time which is what I do often) and I would rather grab a laptop for that.
Why would I want a folding phone? I want my phone to be as rigid as possible.
Well, if rigidity is what’s holding you back, there are some devices out there that won’t disappoint . The prices are quite high though, but they’ve come a long way from their first iteration…
Oh it’s far from the only thing. I also prefer smaller and cheaper phones.
I own an iPhone 13 mini and love the form factor. I still remember when this phone would’ve been considered big.
I got a good deal on a Fold 4 and it’s been great. It’s literally a tablet in your pocket and with multi-window it’s about as capable as a PC for most tasks. Having such a large screen and 2-3 apps open at once is great whenever you’re trying to get anything done.
Before the Fold though, I also had the Oneplus 7 Pro and I think that phone still looks more modern than anything else I see out there today because of the uninterrupted notch-less display. If they didn’t give it up for a hole-punch on the 8 I would have probably stuck with them.
God I miss that phone so much. Was forced to upgrade when Sprint and T-Mobile merged. Been using a pixel since and it just isn’t the same.
Screen real estate? Also see here.
I think he was pretty spot on, but didn’t touch on one of the most important issues. You have to be careful with the inner screen. Keep the nail tappers away, watch how you press to fold the phone, etc.
My phone feels loved. And is still, unlike all apple devices my family’s used, fully functional and not in need of replacement.
Sent from my OnePlus 7 Pro
It’s only 4 years old. There are still plenty of people using 7 year old iphones
That said, the 7 Pro was cool and I loved it, till I realized I couldn’t use my bank app is I wanted a custom rom so I just gave it to my mom and got an iPhone because if I can’t tinker, I don’t want a platform that needs tinkering to get it just right lol
Oh, I don’t disagree that people can use their iPhones for a long time. (I used to be an iPhone user, too, but prefer android.) I was just comparing my family’s use (all are iPhone users - some rabidly so) and they’re constantly talking to me about issues with battery, charging, what have you, and seem to get a new phone every two years at minimum.
OnePlus 6 user says hello from LineageOS
Bring back physical keyboards!
yes please. I need that actual tacticle feedback, not just a stupid vibration whenever I touch something.
Why even keep it on?
My first two actions with a new phone are turning off haptic feedback and tap sounds. Don’t need that annoying shit.I thought they were just for old people. Ps I’m “old” and I hate that shit
Yes, that would be great
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This is all I want. I’ll settle for an iPhone when apple fully complies with EU regulations. Once they officially allow third party app stores I’ll be interested, and at that point I wouldn’t know the difference between the two
I would still want Android phones experimenting with strange features and would honestly take a device I could modify to add on those features but then I guess it can be coded like an accessory
Let’s not give the Android manufacturers too much credit for innovation. My 6 year old LG V20 has more features than anything coming out these days.
Iphone does have some cool, closed garden things, eg, airtags.
Yes. Android has alternatives, none of which are nearly as good as airtags.
Defending a product by trying to upsell with accessories has got to be the most Apple thing
I’d think of defending its accessories as things like; lightning/USB-C to 3.5mm jacks… which android phones also have.
At this point, airtags are all but a product unto themselves, except that you need an iphone to use them. But they are an incredibly cool product, which I can’t use because I am not in the apple ecosystem (and haven’t been since shortly after Steve Jobs kicked the can).
I could also point out that including LIDAR in their phones is cool, and has opened up new features and functions within various apps. You could also say that Crash Detection and Emergency SOS via satellite are “Killer Features” too.
But with all that said, attacking people over their opinions is very much a fanboy thing to do.
Okay, in all honesty I’m not trying to be hostile, but I get why it seems like I am. You may want to rethink the “product unto themselves except that you need” sentence. That’s straight not how language works.
You should rethink how the “hostile” thing works, because that’s not how interpersonal relations work.
the frick? Why does a phone have LIDAR!?
I believe it was originally to do with focus, and applying “Shallow depth of field” effects, aka blurry backgrounds.
But now you can get cool features like, being able to scan things with your phone (for say 3d printing), but it’s far more accurate than anything else on the market.
Tile was around for years before “airtags”
Yes, but tile doesnt work on the mesh network of iPhones everywhere. If I lose my wallet on the bus, I can find that bus or the person who stole my wallet thanks to other people owning Apple phones reporting it to mine over the internet.
Tile has a mesh network, it just isn’t as big as Apples. It also isn’t enabled by default: you have to mark your tile as “lost” – which sidesteps the stalking issues airtags have.
Honestly, I doubted this, and looked it up.
Why do you think in only a few years AirTags have become so ubiquitous, while tile has had nearly a decade on them, and are so barely known?
That’s pretty easy, because they’re marketed by apple and support is built into all ios devices.
Whereas Tile is a third party company and had to hoist their network onto iphones.
It’s a common pattern in big tech and part of why it’s near impossible for any independent company to get anywhere in the industry
Marketing
Android literally came out with a universal air tag system. Works the same as air tags, but you can go with any brand you want.
Plus the fact there’s more Android devices out there, it’s more useful.
And they backported the tracking feature in Google services, so old devices that don’t get updates anymore will be able to use the new system.
Really? Because the only ones I’ve seen have been based on the “Tile” system.
At last check: Requires everyone to have the system on the phone and turned on (Opt in vs opt out), and don’t have user replaceable batteries (manufactured ewaste).
And your implied claim that Android is an open system and lets any developers in while Apple do not is also false, for example: https://www.momax.net/en-us/products/br5
Yes, they announced it at Google IO. They also added the ability for your phone to automatically notify you if an air tag is following you.
https://www.androidauthority.com/android-find-my-device-network-upgrade-3323214/
Here’s one of the many products that you can buy, that automatically work with the new Android tracker system.
They aren’t out yet (so there’s no word on if they’re good or not), but pebblebee is making trackers that are rechargeable.
Not quite “user replaceable batteries”, but in my opinion it’s a better execution better than a purely disposable device – so long as the battery life isn’t garbage.
The chipolo has a replaceable battery.
Huawei’s new phones can make satellite calls and texts out of the box, much more innovative than the glyph gimmic from Nothing.
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oh yah when you put it like that, hidden underscreen cameras seems scary
Hidden as in you can’t see it, not hidden as in you don’t know it’s there. Everyone knows phones have front cameras. And if someone could get access to that, they could watch you just as easily through a not hidden front camera…
The obsession boring people have with thinking that someone is going to hack their webcam and record some sort of salacious content of them is astoundingly broad. To the point that very mundane people have web cam covers for their laptops or the little piece of post-it note taped over. Like people, no one gives enough of a shit about you that they will hack your camera and even if they did what are you doing that you care so much? If the answer is nothing then you are the last person that needs to worry about someone hacking a fucking webcam.
/rant
Why?
Small iterative improvements vs big “innovation” failures?
All of the features mentioned above have had a minimum of two iterations (nothing phone 2 has a new glyph) and numerous internal test samples.
Folding phones are flimsy bits of plastic-screened crap that are just as expensive as two separate, better phone and tablet. And many apps barely work anyway.
Glyph interface is a pointless gimmick.
Under-screen cameras produce terrible images.
There are lots of reasons to hate Apple, but none of these are.
I mean I’m on my fold 5 right now while watching a YouTube video and responding to messages at the same time… doesn’t feel like a gimmack to me. In fact I kind of feel like it’s going to be hard to ever go back to a single form factor phone.
Not to mention my wife’s flip cost less than my s23 uktra, and probably less than the s23 plus. It needs a new screen protector, but its held up against open and closed drops, including on concrete
The Flips also have a worse display, camera system, build quality, battery life, and just everything than either of those alternate Samsung phones.
Sure, Jan.
Tbh you can do that on a regular phone using a popup player on YouTube (I recommend NewPipe).
Now the true reason to be excited for fold phones is DS and 3DS emulation 🧐
Kind of, yeah. But the foldable gives a tablet experience that you just fold and put in your pocket. It’s epic.
Very true about 3DS…
I didn’t say folding phones are a gimmick, I said they’re fragile and bad value propositions.
Seems everyone who has one thinks they’re a pretty solid value proposition. You might just be looking at it throb contrarian tinted lenses.
These weren’t presented as reasons to hate Apple.
Why the f would I want an unblockable front camera though, I hate that idea
It’s “hidden” behind the screen, meaning there’s to hole or cutout in the screen for the front camera. It’s not perfect and you can still see where the camera is.
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You think apple doesn’t track how often you blink? They just don’t tell you they do, because they don’t have to tell you.
Ignorance is bliss here.
There are no ads in iphone apps? Battery life is not much different in my experience It’s similar, but you can mitigate that on Android, not so much on iphone.
Only android phone with tensor is Google pixel. There is much more to android than that. I still get 9-10 hours screen on time, off of one charge on a three year old android device with a 120hz screen. Apple definitely tracks you and free apps definitely have ads. On Android, private DNS allows you to essentially block ads system wide. And Android has advantages such as pop up and multi window apps for multitasking, I’ve been using that for 10 years now, since the galaxy S4. Apple still does not have this feature on the iPhone, only the iPad.
The advantages of an iPhone are the cohesive software experience with top class hardware and a premium feel, with top class video quality. In that they are alone at the top.
