“Mercenaries and auxiliaries are useless and dangerous; and if one holds his state based on these arms, he will stand neither firm nor safe.”
Niccolo Machiavelli - The Prince
“Windows are dangerous. Also, radioactive umbrellas” - zeppo, a Lemmy Member
A merc is loyal, until the last payment clears.
Or until Riddick is chasing them.
This is not a “war”, it is a “special military operation”.
This is not a “coup”, it is a “march for justice”.
Everyone tries to control the narrative, this is completely normal. Anti-terrorist operation, peacekeeping mission, special military operation, march for X. I don’t remember someone who just said “yep, we are invading X”.
In this case both Prigozhin and Putin (or the establishment) are trying to control the narrative to gather support from “patriots”. Saying you are making a coup sounds antigonizing, while saying you are marching for justice, because it’s the government who has betrayed the people does not.
The Wagnerites also seized the buildings of the head office of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the FSB department, the administration of #Rostov and one of the police departments, according to local channels. Nobody in the city understands what’s going on.
Nobody knew what was going on in 1968 czechoslovakia as well, when the russians came with the tanks. I don’t really wish them any harm, but I’m glad they can experience the same confusion now. May this experience serve as a warning.
I doubt the people in Rostov are the ones who were in Czechoslovakia in 1968.
Actually Russians didn’t come here. Soviets did, but not from Russia.
How lovely
Like watching Cobra attack the Decepticons.
Can you explain the significance of these buildings?
Are they the head offices of those departments, or the offices that are in that city?
How powerful are these departments?
Rostov is the admin centre of Rostov Oblast (state capital city). I would assume the main offices are in Moscow and these are the regional headquarters.
So while it is big if they have taken them it is not as big as if they had done so in Moscow.
The city is apparently the base for the Russian southern military district command which is key to the war efforts in Ukraine - according to the Institute for the Study of War via the Guardian
Holly shit this has been picked up by the BBC.
Remember, it doesn’t matter if they succeed or not. The fact it has happened will terrify Putin.
I feel like this might be on behalf of Putin.
Wagner has been pretty careful to call out everyone but Putin.
Feels like setting the stage for a claim that the war was orchestrated by rogue elements in the Russian military, giving an out to tuck tail and run and move toward easing sanctions.
Nah, this feels more like an “evil counsellors” situation - you don’t want to take on the king directly, so you instead give him an out by saying that he’s OK but he’s been given bad advice. Which also means if you do take over you can keep him around as a figurehead who now listens to better advisers like yourself.
True, it’ll be interesting to see what the hell happened once the dust settles.
Judging from the address to the nation, this doesn’t seem the case now.
The situation is still very confused.
Yeah, shit is wild.
This is what I’m worried about. I hope they all tear themselves to pieces, but if Putin gets out scot free, I’ll be disappointed
I mean i hear what you’re saying, but if it means less death and destruction for innocent Ukrainians then I’m all for letting Putin live.
I feel like this might be on behalf of Putin.
Wagner has been pretty careful to call out everyone but Putin.
Feels like setting the stage for a claim that the war was orchestrated by rogue elements in the Russian military, giving an out to tuck tail and run and move toward easing sanctions.
It won’t terrify Putin. It all goes according to the plan. Different forces are fighting between themselves to show who’s more loyal to Putin, those who are not loyal enough are either falling out of windows or being killed on the battlefield. And those who are loyal are getting ludicrously rich. The amount of billionaires in Russia has increased fivefold during the first year of the war.
Army generals got too corrupt and too complacent since their success in Crimea in 2014, this war is a tool to put them into place and Prigozhin talks a lot so that Putin can put generals’ noses into their shit to teach them a lesson or two while the public fully supports this. Prigozhin gets his piece of the pie in the process.
According to Forbes, the number of billionaires in Russia has increased from 99 in 2022 to 105 in 2023.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/04/20/billionaires-a80889
Yes, this is way too open. To me this looks like turkey 2016 “coup”
I welcome russian infighting. Hope it makes it easier for Ukraine to retake Crimea.
All the Nazi’s who were “expelled” out of Azov/various militias could join up with Wagner and then they all take Ukraine for themselves.
Ukrainian army called …they need fresh supplies of popcorn…
More evidence as to why you don’t hire mercenaries. They are only loyal to the money. I hope the US is watching with their love of PMC’s.
Especially if you send the mercenaries on a nonsense mission to die a pointless death…
Especially when you then allow that mercenary group to release and recruit 30,000 prisoners
The Ukraine counter-offensive sure is effective.
I would like to submit “Putin panics and nukes his own people to stop the advance” for my Bingo card.
the latest resolution from NATO didnt say Russia cant nuke itself…
Any nuke west of the Urals is likely to provoke radiation that reaches NATO, and nukes east of the Urals would be, uh, insignificant most likely.
Launching a nuke would have to be the dumbest thing Putin could do. A huge chunk of NATO must already be salivating at the internal chaos.
I bet Polish social media is on fire right now.
my mind is so blown. i didn’t have wagner turning against russia on my bingo card
I mean Prigozin has been advertising his eventual turning against Putin for a while, but I didn’t think it would happen as a full on military coup
My personal theory is that he never intended it to get this far (previously he never called out Putin directly), but a failed assassination attempt made him decided he has no choice.
I kinda had it on it when Prigozhin started releasing videos of him acting as a reasonable person to gain popular support.
savvy!
I’ve also go “nuclear civil war” on my card.
ohno
Anyway
Hmm not sure it’s against Russia, more like against the bureaucrats that stole his ammunition
fair enough, it’s an important distinction
I didn’t either, but history has plenty of examples of mercenary armies turning against their employers.
Can someone please explain what’s going on ? I am out of the loop. I know Wagner was fighting for Russia but what happened now?
Everyone in Wagner was about to be conscripted into the regular Russian Army as the latest in an ongoing power struggle between Wagner’s boss and the Russian MoD. So to avoid losing his private army, the boss has stepped up the power struggle to an attempted coup, basically.
The coup will be crushed, but it will weaken the Russian military even more and they lose their (now former) elite forces
My money isn’t on the Russian Army being able to “crush” anything tougher than a chicken egg at this point.
woah, so a win-win for us
Who’s going to crush them? The Russian military? They are going to join them.
Well, according to newest updates apparently not.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-wagner-prigozhin-9acbdf1eda849692ca0423a4116058d1
He’s headed to Belarus, per the AP.
The head of Wagner was unhappy with Russian military leaders and thought he’d take matters into his own hands as Putin was going to support him. Putin did not. Now there are 10,000 men heading to Moscow.
I for one welcome their new Military overlords.
Breaking
„Ukraine runs out of popcorn“https://twitter.com/war__online/status/1672535209038827521?s=20
We need to start sending popcorn bags to Ukraine
Send Putin thoughts and prayers and send Ukraine guns and bombs.
Wagner switching sides was not on my bingo card
They didn’t switch sides. They created a third side. A Mêlée à Trois.
Truly catering to every male fantasy.
To be honest I thought Wagner and also the Chechen commanded forces would cause chaos in Russia after the war - Putin unleashed the genies from their bottles in his desperation. Both see themselves as successors to Putin should he fall, and civil war was on the cards but more likely a conflict between Wagner and the Chechen forces of some form. I agree - moving DURING the war with Ukraine - that is totally unexpected!
But they’ve not switched sides tbf - this seems to be the first steps in a civil war. And it shows just how broken Russia is. The question is, will Wagner step back from the precipice after exacting some sort of price out of the Russian state? Or is this a battle for survival and so unstoppable.
The really really worrying this is when things get unpredictable like this, there is no telling how things could escalate further. Look at WW1 - the death of Franz Ferdinand helped unleash chaos in a way no one could have forseen.
Mercs are always on their own side first and foremost.
Purchased loyalty always has an expiry date, usually about 6 hours after the last payment clears.
They are on the side that pays them or that they see the most profit from.
Feel like no one has had any matching bingo cards in the past few years.
If Kiev has been saving something up for a special occasion, this occasion is starting to look pretty special.
I think this is a good time to continue what they’ve been doing, interfering with Russian logistics and pressing forward on the front lines.
They could make an attack on Russian territory (e.g. drone strikes against airbases, oilfields, bridges, or other suitable targets), but right now might be the right time to hold off on anything that might distract Russia and Wagner from fighting with each other. Nothing unifies squabbling factions quite like a serious external threat.
I wouldn’t be surprised, though, if Ukraine ops to antagonize Russia as much as they can, while leaving Wagner mostly alone. That would also be a sensible strategy.
Almost feels a little too special.
