The ability to change features, prices, and availability of things you’ve already paid for is a powerful temptation to corporations.

  • WindowsEnjoyer@sh.itjust.works
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    2 years ago
    • When you take 5 eur from my pocket - you are stealing.
    • When you take 5 eur from my pocket, make a copy and put my original 5 eur back to my pocket - this is not stealing.
    • kent_eh@lemmy.ca
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      2 years ago

      Further to that, paying for a product then the seller taking that product away from you without refunding your payment is stealing.

      • MonkeMischief@lemmy.today
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        2 years ago

        Man does “Google Nest” come to mind. Buys company. Pushes it all over the place. “Eh, I think we’re done. Whole ecosystem useless now.”

        Which is par for the course with Google and not at all a surprise, but sheesh.

    • Katana314@lemmy.world
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      2 years ago

      The “taking a physical object” analogy doesn’t even give us anything useful.

      Most stores of perishable goods don’t want to hold onto their stock; they want to give it away, ideally in a way that makes them money. In many countries, they will even give away the last excess to homeless people that would not reasonably be able to afford it.

      If there’s one orange seller in a town that’s put effort into a supply train to bring oranges there, but someone has shared a magic spell that lets them xerox oranges off the shelf, then that orange seller never gets paid, and has no livelihood; it doesn’t help him that he still has all of the oranges he brought to market, he’s not going to eat them all himself.

      I expect the morally deprived will answer “Not my problem.” Yet, it’s going to be an issue for them when they try to run their own business.

    • SCB@lemmy.world
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      2 years ago

      If you have sex with, but don’t pay a prostitute, are you stealing?

        • SCB@lemmy.world
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          2 years ago

          No because the entire metaphor is built on the concept of prostitution

          • Camille_Jamal@lemmy.zip
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            1 day ago

            In this analogy you are stealing time and labour, if we’re being weird. Not being weird, thats rape, please get a better comparison, one that isn’t a crime against every living being please. Im not sure how this translates to copyright

            The whole thing is chaotic and weird

            ‘Theft’ of an online thing is, yes, illegal, but if it is for the sake of preservation it is basically objectively morally good. There is a very fine, hard to see, easy to cross line of when piracy is good or bad and no-one actually knows where this line is.

            Your analogy is strange by the way.

      • psud@aussie.zone
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        2 years ago

        Piracy is also not at all like stealing services, just as it is unlike theft of real items.

        Not paying a prostitute because you have a sexual partner at home who meets your needs is closer, but also not the same

        • SCB@lemmy.world
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          2 years ago

          Except your literally performing the same service, which I paid by everyone but you. Game of Thrones is expensive. Subs pay for it.

          Fuck man I’m pro-piracy because I do it to, but it is absolutely stealing. Make peace with it.

          • psud@aussie.zone
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            2 years ago

            Stealing is the wrong word for it though as software piracy does not deprive the owner of the thing copied.

            There are arguments that it is nett good even as it gets people into an author, singer, game company, while they cannot afford it and they may become a good customer for that author, singer, game company later in life

            This new problem where companies revoke your licence to content is the industry shooting itself in the foot so I don’t care about the ethics of it, if they don’t sell me a product for me to own like I own a paper book, I’ll take a copy without licence

            • poopkins@lemmy.world
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              2 years ago

              How is the owner not deprived of your copy? Have you given it back to them? It’s an odd thing to mince over words like “theft” and “stealing.” If it’s the words that bother you, perhaps consider this: should it be permissible to consume a digital good without consent of the copyright holder?

              If the copyright holder wants more exposure, that is up to them to decide. It’s absolutely unreasonable to do so on their behalf and claim it’s somehow doing them a favor. With that logic, any form of theft can be legitimized.

                • poopkins@lemmy.world
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                  1 day ago

                  I’m not sure if you’re being sarcastic or joking, since that can be hard to distill through written text, but I don’t think it needs to be spelled out that property that is not for sale can in fact be stolen.

      • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
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        2 years ago

        Taking a product from the shop without paying and returning the item later is still stealing.

        The issue here is that there is a period of time where the shop does not have the item.

        • poopkins@lemmy.world
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          2 years ago

          If you are trying to make an analogy to digital copies, this still doesn’t hold water. The copyright holder does not have ownership of your copy.

          • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
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            2 years ago

            The copyright holder should never have ownership of my copy. If I purchase it it should be mine to use. The shop should not be allowed to come to my house and take it away.

            • poopkins@lemmy.world
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              2 years ago

              The key difference here is that you only own the copy when the copyright holder sells it to you. I don’t know if you’re being obtuse, but this shouldn’t be a difficult concept to grasp. If it helps in understanding, try replacing “copy” with “product” and “copyright holder” with “store.”

              • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
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                2 years ago

                The key difference here is that you only own the copy when the copyright holder sells it to you

                Right, I should own my copy. I have purchased this copy and it’s mine now. It’s bullshit for a store to say “now that we no longer sell the thing your purchased previously you’re not allowed to own it anymore.”

                • poopkins@lemmy.world
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                  2 years ago

                  Ownership is one condition that a copyright holder might offer, but that’s not guaranteed. Video rental shops would allow unlimited consumption for a limited time period, for example. We can argue all day about the differences and what consumers want versus the conditions under which content producers currently operate. I am personally also extremely frustrated by that, and I vote with my wallet: I do not subscribe to services that I find too restrictive or too expensive.

                  Where I am in the minority, however, is my position that copyright infringement is illegal, unethical and can in any way be legitimized.

    • poopkins@lemmy.world
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      2 years ago

      That’s not a fair example, because 5 Euros has an intrinsic value. The theft here is of intellectual property. Here’s an analogy:

      • When you take a book from a book store without paying for it, you are stealing.
      • When you take a book from a book store without paying for it, make an exact replication of it and return the original, you are stealing intellectual property.
      • psud@aussie.zone
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        2 years ago

        That second dot should be when you make an identical copy of the book without taking it from the shelf. When I get an unlicensed copy of a book, the original is never out of place, not for a moment

        Piracy was huge in Australia back when films were released at staggered times across the world. If it was a winter release in America, it would release six months later in the Australian winter. Try avoiding spoilers online for six months.

        Piracy is less now because things are released everywhere at once and we aren’t harmed by a late release

        Now when companies pull shit like deleting content you think you bought, they encourage people to go around them. Play Station can’t be trusted? Well there are piracy channels that cost only a VPN subscription (and only while you’re collecting media, not after, while watching and storing it) and people will be pushed to those

      • Rodeo@lemmy.ca
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        2 years ago

        Only if you subsequently distribute it does that “theft” break the law.

        Also money doesn’t actually have intrinsic value. It’s just fancy paper. Things like food and shelter and clothing, and the tools and materials with which to make them, that’s what intrinsic value is.

        • poopkins@lemmy.world
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          2 years ago

          Making a copy without the copyright is against the law, no matter which way you slice it. Egregious large-scale infringement is usually prosecuted, whereas it’s otherwise settled civilly. Nevertheless, both constitute copyright infringement.

          Indeed I had the terms confused: it’s incorrect to say fiat currency has intrinsic value; it has instrumental value.