I think your knowledge of this is superficial and you’re actually the one in the parallel reality. Like, just one example: Dozens of countries didn’t suspend funding to UNRWA over 12 workers, but 12 workers became the face of it. It’s the single largest employer in Gaza. It’s like Wal-Mart (or is it Amazon now, in America).
You really think only 12 of them are in Hamas? The actual report from Israeli intelligence suggested 12 people helped with October 7. It found that there were thousands, up to half of all UNRWA employees, with direct supportive ties to members of the local government (Hamas, very popular in Gaza), and likely hundreds to thousands of actual card-carrying members, in addition to the 12 known employees who used UNRWA resources to execute October 7.
UNRWA has long been accused of enabling Hamas and acting as an impediment to peace.
Israel can and should allow more aid. And it seems like its failure to do so is going to cost its leadership their jobs in the next election, not Hamas though, because their leadership is holed up in Rafah surrounded by hundreds of thousands of human shields and the first thing they did after being elected to power was cancel all future elections.
Ah yes, let’s trust now the Israelian state propaganda at face value without a drop of critical thinking, right? Where is the independently verified proof that those people are Hamas? Because according to my knowledge they didn’t provide any clear proof even in front of UNRWA that those employees were actually involved in the attack.
My brain tells me that when Israeli intelligence officers came to the US and laid out their case against UNRWA, they did not pull a fast one over on the Secretaries of State and Defense, the Director of National Intelligence, the Gang of Eight, and President’s Chief of Staff. They took immediate action. Your brain is telling you that all of America’s foreign service and intelligence might was unable to corroborate the Israeli findings but acted on them anyway? You will never personally see the proof unless you have a security clearance and need to know. Have to go with what you can see. And you can see those public servants giving press briefings on what they saw and what they did.
Again though it’s basic math. UNRWA is the largest employer in Gaza and necessarily works with Hamas,. Hamas is extremely popular and each member has dozens of proud family and friends with like “❤️Proud Martyr Mom🎗️” bumper stickers on their donkey carts. It would be hard to believe if thousands of UNRWA employees were NOT rooting for Hamas and providing aid and support to known Hamas members.
In my view though, UNRWA is an obstacle to peace because it props up Hamas’s rule over Gaza. Without them, famine would have struck a decade ago and maybe Gaza would have liberated itself from Hamas abysmal leadership. You know, Gaza had two airports, one with international flights, and a seaport, until they came under Hamas’s charge and got turned into instrumentalities of international terrorism.
And here you are mixing your talking points. Gaza’s airport was destroyed in 2002, 5 years before Hamas took control of Gaza.
Just open any Wikipedia link about Gaza or any human rights organisation without known ties with Israel to read what they think about Israel’s treatment of Palestine.
Shall I also remind you of your own history that the country of Israel exists today thanks to the terrorist acts of Haganah (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haganah). Shall we also mention the systematic land grab, illegal settlements, various checkpoints, limiting basic human rights like freedom of movement, the economic, maritime blockade of Israel, etc.
Seriously tell me how you would have felt if you were born Palestinian. It is quite ironic and sad that you also turned like your past oppressors, dehumanizing the Palestinians. One would have expected for you of all people to be more sensible about this issue, but here we are. Starving almost 2 million people, turning them all into refugees and filming all this and proudly posting it on TikTok.
Following the end of World War II, the British refused to lift the restrictions on Jewish immigration that they had imposed with the 1939 White Paper. This resulted in Haganah leading a Jewish insurgency against the British authorities in Palestine; the campaign included the paramilitaries’ bombing of bridges, railways, and ships used to deport illegal Jewish immigrants, as well as assisting in bringing more diaspora Jews to Palestine in defiance of British policies.
And you also know that when Palestine was partitioned the Jew population constituted only a third of all people living there and that was mostly because of the illegal migration aided by the Haganah and yet they got most of the territory which was originally exclusively Arab.
This is the same like someone coming to your backyard and claiming 2/3 of your house. How would you feel? Of course Arabs weren’t happy. And up until today Israel continue to illegally seize more and more land from Palestinians and making their life even shittier. And then you wonder why those people are getting radicalized or why Hamas is gaining popularity.
And trust me the way Israel has conducted this war has created a lot more future terrorists then they managed to kill.
Just today, they have admitted that they have mistook a bag for a rifle or at least this is how they explained the targeted killing of 7 humanitarian aid workers. And now think about how many more misidentifications led to the death of thousands more innocent people. But yes, you continue blindly to support them.
I would be pissed too but eventually I’d just want my kids to grow up in a world without terror tunnels under our house, living hand to mouth at the whim of religious morons with absolute power over everything, who continue to steer my people in the absolute wrong direction on every concievable public issue and so recklessly risking my family’s lives. I might even find some of them and try to help liberate my people, might even fuck around and lead the rebellion against them. See how I’m going against the popular grain here? I think I’d go against the popular grain there, too, then again if I had grown up there I probably wouldn’t know any better. I’d have gone to elementary school malnourished, with teachers from UNRWA teaching little me all about how evil the Jews are, and learning how to take zero responsibility for the consequences of my own choices. Interesting thought experiment!
Yeah the IDF really bungled this one. The reports about it were verified and credible from the jump. Numerous credible witnesses came forward. Evenidence remained untouched at the scene. That almost never happens in Gaza. I guess the locals, Qatari state media, and all the Iranian proxies figured the IDF fucked up enough all on their own so there was no need to stage a scene or exaggerate the reports.
The IDF investigated. They fired and reprimanded the people involved. Known facts point to mistakes and negligence, not a war crime. What more do you want? Israel has a legitimate legal system comprised of something more than the backwards, insane religious ramblings of power hungry terrorists. The aid workers come from civilized countries with legitimate legal systems, not based on mysticism and superstition, and their survivors have mechanisms to sue a country for civil damages for such negligence.
Negligence and bone fide accidents happens in war zones. That’s part of the reason most people don’t sign up to go visit wars and why most people in Gaza did not ignore the evacuation orders.
Hamas blasts a rocket into a car full of innocent people, you think they reprimand anyone? No, they give out prizes and laugh about it.
This event makes me look more favorably on Israel’s credibility as far as following international law. They actually punish war criminals, as noted in the ICJ’s preliminary orders.
You anf your children won’t have time to get pissed. Israel will have killed you all anyway by the time you come to your conclusion… for a tunnel you did not build.
Apparently Israel was fine with 15-20 civilian casualties just for the sniff of a Hamas fighter in the area, using dumb bombs.
btw do you know why your posts keep getting so long?
It’s because of the inner conflict. Even you find it hard to justify this BS to yourself so you have to wrestle with words and excuses.
That’s not what I said. There were 12 known to have helped at the time funding was pulled. A few others have been discovered since. An Israeli hostages was rescued out of the attic of an UNRWA teacher, for example.
I said hundreds to thousands are members and close supporters. I’m seeing articles saying 30 helped and 450 employees are members. I cannot find right now in the sea of articles the details I am referring to, but they were in a 13 page report from Israel to the US Congress a week or so after funding was pulled. The report is classified but some folks talked about it. I think it was a gang of eight member who gave the details on how many UNRWA employees have a family member in Hamas. I want to say it was 4,000 to 6,000. I’ll poke around for the article. It may even have been a press briefing by a legislator. State Department I think had some details in a press conference as well, around the same time. I’ll find it when I get some time.
In January, Israel set out allegations that were seismic for the United Nations’ relief work in Gaza: staff working for the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine (Unrwa), it alleged, had taken part in the 7 October attacks by Hamas. Almost two months later, with funding for the agency paused by international donors including the UK and US, UN investigators are yet to receive evidence of Israel’s claims – and relations between the two sides are at an all-time low.
The evidence cited in Israel’s dossier included text messages, intercepted calls, and mobile phone data said to establish the 12 staffers’ movements during the attacks. In early February, Unrwa fired nine staffers accused of being involved in the attacks, saying that it had done so in advance of any investigation because “the ability of the entire agency to continue to operate and deliver critical humanitarian assistance was at stake”.
But as the weeks have passed, the reliability of Israel’s allegations has been called into question. “Unrwa say they’ve barely received any evidence, and that they have seen some confessions that appear to have been obtained under duress in Israeli detention,” Jason said.
Israel has refused to cooperate with the UN and has provided none of its evidence despite a fact-finding mission by investigators, the Daily Telegraph reported. And a US intelligence assessment reportedly found with “low confidence” that a handful of staff had participated in the attack but cast doubt on claims of wider collaboration between Hamas and Unrwa.
In the meantime, the situation for Palestinians relying on Unrwa’s aid remains dire, with the World Food Programme and the World Health Organization warning this week that northern Gaza is now on the brink of famine, and only about a third of the 500 trucks of aid needed a day crossing into the territory. There have been 168 Unrwa employees killed since the conflict began, and Lazzarini said on Monday that he had been denied access to Gaza by the Israeli authorities, a claim Israel denies. Last week, a food distribution centre in Rafah run by Unrwa was hit by an Israeli airstrike.
I know it’s crazy you can find anything on the internet. Including some obviously false quotes in the Guardian article. Israel provided a confidential report to the ICJ on February 21, I think was the date.
Anyway you’re going with the theory that Israeli intelligence officers and diplomats came to America and lied to President’s face, along with Sec State and Sec Def, and not only that, but all of them fell for the lie. Give me a break. You were born yesterday I guess, not me though.
I think your knowledge of this is superficial and you’re actually the one in the parallel reality. Like, just one example: Dozens of countries didn’t suspend funding to UNRWA over 12 workers, but 12 workers became the face of it. It’s the single largest employer in Gaza. It’s like Wal-Mart (or is it Amazon now, in America).
You really think only 12 of them are in Hamas? The actual report from Israeli intelligence suggested 12 people helped with October 7. It found that there were thousands, up to half of all UNRWA employees, with direct supportive ties to members of the local government (Hamas, very popular in Gaza), and likely hundreds to thousands of actual card-carrying members, in addition to the 12 known employees who used UNRWA resources to execute October 7.
UNRWA has long been accused of enabling Hamas and acting as an impediment to peace.
Israel can and should allow more aid. And it seems like its failure to do so is going to cost its leadership their jobs in the next election, not Hamas though, because their leadership is holed up in Rafah surrounded by hundreds of thousands of human shields and the first thing they did after being elected to power was cancel all future elections.
Ah yes, let’s trust now the Israelian state propaganda at face value without a drop of critical thinking, right? Where is the independently verified proof that those people are Hamas? Because according to my knowledge they didn’t provide any clear proof even in front of UNRWA that those employees were actually involved in the attack.
So again use your brain not your eyes.
Yes, my brain. Not my eyes.
My brain tells me that when Israeli intelligence officers came to the US and laid out their case against UNRWA, they did not pull a fast one over on the Secretaries of State and Defense, the Director of National Intelligence, the Gang of Eight, and President’s Chief of Staff. They took immediate action. Your brain is telling you that all of America’s foreign service and intelligence might was unable to corroborate the Israeli findings but acted on them anyway? You will never personally see the proof unless you have a security clearance and need to know. Have to go with what you can see. And you can see those public servants giving press briefings on what they saw and what they did.
Again though it’s basic math. UNRWA is the largest employer in Gaza and necessarily works with Hamas,. Hamas is extremely popular and each member has dozens of proud family and friends with like “❤️Proud Martyr Mom🎗️” bumper stickers on their donkey carts. It would be hard to believe if thousands of UNRWA employees were NOT rooting for Hamas and providing aid and support to known Hamas members.
In my view though, UNRWA is an obstacle to peace because it props up Hamas’s rule over Gaza. Without them, famine would have struck a decade ago and maybe Gaza would have liberated itself from Hamas abysmal leadership. You know, Gaza had two airports, one with international flights, and a seaport, until they came under Hamas’s charge and got turned into instrumentalities of international terrorism.
And here you are mixing your talking points. Gaza’s airport was destroyed in 2002, 5 years before Hamas took control of Gaza.
Just open any Wikipedia link about Gaza or any human rights organisation without known ties with Israel to read what they think about Israel’s treatment of Palestine.
Shall I also remind you of your own history that the country of Israel exists today thanks to the terrorist acts of Haganah (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haganah). Shall we also mention the systematic land grab, illegal settlements, various checkpoints, limiting basic human rights like freedom of movement, the economic, maritime blockade of Israel, etc.
Seriously tell me how you would have felt if you were born Palestinian. It is quite ironic and sad that you also turned like your past oppressors, dehumanizing the Palestinians. One would have expected for you of all people to be more sensible about this issue, but here we are. Starving almost 2 million people, turning them all into refugees and filming all this and proudly posting it on TikTok.
And I will leave this here https://archive.is/uIZoj . And please try to justify this treatment or explain to me why Palestinians are held in administrative detention, without charge, etc. and why they are tried against military courts. Or tell me how many settlers have been given effective sentences for torturing Palestinians, destroying their properties etc. and how come 12 year old kids can be sued in Israel: https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/new-israeli-law-allows-children-young-12-be-jailed
Also, I’m not Jewish or Israeli.
deleted by creator
Hmm why did Jews in the Levant need a security force before 1920? So weird rite?
And you also know that when Palestine was partitioned the Jew population constituted only a third of all people living there and that was mostly because of the illegal migration aided by the Haganah and yet they got most of the territory which was originally exclusively Arab.
This is the same like someone coming to your backyard and claiming 2/3 of your house. How would you feel? Of course Arabs weren’t happy. And up until today Israel continue to illegally seize more and more land from Palestinians and making their life even shittier. And then you wonder why those people are getting radicalized or why Hamas is gaining popularity.
And trust me the way Israel has conducted this war has created a lot more future terrorists then they managed to kill.
Just today, they have admitted that they have mistook a bag for a rifle or at least this is how they explained the targeted killing of 7 humanitarian aid workers. And now think about how many more misidentifications led to the death of thousands more innocent people. But yes, you continue blindly to support them.
I would be pissed too but eventually I’d just want my kids to grow up in a world without terror tunnels under our house, living hand to mouth at the whim of religious morons with absolute power over everything, who continue to steer my people in the absolute wrong direction on every concievable public issue and so recklessly risking my family’s lives. I might even find some of them and try to help liberate my people, might even fuck around and lead the rebellion against them. See how I’m going against the popular grain here? I think I’d go against the popular grain there, too, then again if I had grown up there I probably wouldn’t know any better. I’d have gone to elementary school malnourished, with teachers from UNRWA teaching little me all about how evil the Jews are, and learning how to take zero responsibility for the consequences of my own choices. Interesting thought experiment!
Yeah the IDF really bungled this one. The reports about it were verified and credible from the jump. Numerous credible witnesses came forward. Evenidence remained untouched at the scene. That almost never happens in Gaza. I guess the locals, Qatari state media, and all the Iranian proxies figured the IDF fucked up enough all on their own so there was no need to stage a scene or exaggerate the reports.
The IDF investigated. They fired and reprimanded the people involved. Known facts point to mistakes and negligence, not a war crime. What more do you want? Israel has a legitimate legal system comprised of something more than the backwards, insane religious ramblings of power hungry terrorists. The aid workers come from civilized countries with legitimate legal systems, not based on mysticism and superstition, and their survivors have mechanisms to sue a country for civil damages for such negligence.
Negligence and bone fide accidents happens in war zones. That’s part of the reason most people don’t sign up to go visit wars and why most people in Gaza did not ignore the evacuation orders.
Hamas blasts a rocket into a car full of innocent people, you think they reprimand anyone? No, they give out prizes and laugh about it.
This event makes me look more favorably on Israel’s credibility as far as following international law. They actually punish war criminals, as noted in the ICJ’s preliminary orders.
You anf your children won’t have time to get pissed. Israel will have killed you all anyway by the time you come to your conclusion… for a tunnel you did not build.
Apparently Israel was fine with 15-20 civilian casualties just for the sniff of a Hamas fighter in the area, using dumb bombs.
btw do you know why your posts keep getting so long?
It’s because of the inner conflict. Even you find it hard to justify this BS to yourself so you have to wrestle with words and excuses.
The airport was destroy in the Infitada after Hamas seized control of it.
Where is the proof that there are thousands of UNRWA employees that helped Oct 7th happen? I tried looking it up and couldn’t find anything.
That’s not what I said. There were 12 known to have helped at the time funding was pulled. A few others have been discovered since. An Israeli hostages was rescued out of the attic of an UNRWA teacher, for example.
I said hundreds to thousands are members and close supporters. I’m seeing articles saying 30 helped and 450 employees are members. I cannot find right now in the sea of articles the details I am referring to, but they were in a 13 page report from Israel to the US Congress a week or so after funding was pulled. The report is classified but some folks talked about it. I think it was a gang of eight member who gave the details on how many UNRWA employees have a family member in Hamas. I want to say it was 4,000 to 6,000. I’ll poke around for the article. It may even have been a press briefing by a legislator. State Department I think had some details in a press conference as well, around the same time. I’ll find it when I get some time.
Zero were ‘known to have helped’
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/20/first-edition-israel-unrwa
I know it’s crazy you can find anything on the internet. Including some obviously false quotes in the Guardian article. Israel provided a confidential report to the ICJ on February 21, I think was the date.
Anyway you’re going with the theory that Israeli intelligence officers and diplomats came to America and lied to President’s face, along with Sec State and Sec Def, and not only that, but all of them fell for the lie. Give me a break. You were born yesterday I guess, not me though.