• mozz@mbin.grits.devOP
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    10 months ago

    Yeah, pretty much. This story goes into some details. If that’s accurate, then the objections the Israelis have to the current plan boil down to:

    • They want the deal to allow them to keep fighting the war and keep troops in Gaza (after its terms are fully implemented, which generally isn’t how a cease fire works)
    • They want to be able to keep Palestinians they have (“Iraeli veto over prisoners”) while demanding the fast release of all Israelis that Hamas has (“Hamas has suggested a framework that would stretch out the hostage release”)

    This little section I think gets to the heart of it:

    Israel has consistently opposed any deal that explicitly calls for a permanent cease-fire or an end to the war, and has said it would not agree to either until it felt its military offensive had achieved its goals. Ehud Yaari, an Israel-based fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, said that the Hamas timetable would commit Israel to ending the war while Hamas still holds hostages, leaving Israel without any leverage.

    It’s a very cunning little construction. The deal involves the release of all hostages, of course, in exchange for the end of the war. He’s placing “commit Israel to ending the war” (after the deal) next to “Hamas still holds hostages” (before the deal) and getting all upset that they can’t have the benefits of the deal before agreeing to their side of it, and also they want to avoid having to uphold substantive parts after agreeing to it.

    • DarkGamer@kbin.social
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      10 months ago

      Hamas must be deposed for meaningful safety, they’ve said they want to do October 7th over and over again. This is a last minute deal for them to try and weasel their way out of ultimate consequences for what they have done.

      Occupying Gaza is probably also a good call considering their unilateral withdrawal arguably led directly to October 7th. I expect they will stay, try to implement a puppet government, do a little nation building, and only leave once Gaza is pacified. If this is not possible, expect more annexations and settlements.

      • mozz@mbin.grits.devOP
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        10 months ago

        Hamas must be deposed for meaningful safety

        Likud materially supports Hamas, in my opinion specifically because of their propensity for violence that was useful to Likud’s goals of sabotaging the peace process.

        1. Increasing the violence and repression as a solution to terrorism hasn’t been working for decades in Israel; it’s unlikely that doing more of it would suddenly start working now
        2. Your whole premise that Netanyahu is aiming to increase the safety of the Israelis is totally at odds with his actual behavior
        • DarkGamer@kbin.social
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          10 months ago

          Yes, they tried to divide and conquer but it backfired, I don’t think they’re doing that anymore.

          • Hegar@kbin.social
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            10 months ago

            It’s not divide and conquer, that implies keeping multiple groups at parity and fighting each other. Israel intentionally kept the crazies in charge to undermine the viability of a Palestinian state.

      • Hegar@kbin.social
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        10 months ago

        Our fundamentally inhuman treatment of the Palestinian people led to October 7.

        There are only two ways to prevent it happening again. We could stop the unconscionable deprivations we inflict on the Palestinian people or we could speed up the genocide we’ve been engaged in.

        No surprises that the government compromised of war criminals and people the Israeli courts have deemed to be terrorists are going for the later. The far right are in charge and they’re pretty open that this is the goal.

        • applepie@kbin.social
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          10 months ago

          Is there any chance for this to change course short of US withdrawing support?

          Or are we just gonna have to see this shit real time and then pretend never again, again?

          • Hegar@kbin.social
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            10 months ago

            I doubt it will change even if the US withdraws support, but I’m a cynical depressive type.

            • applepie@kbin.social
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              10 months ago

              They sure got the ability to ear Gaza and west bank by themselves but loss of US support would make their geopolitical situation untenable mid to long term. That’s my thinking and common understanding in geopolitical circles.

              Is Israel government and military deranged enough to think they can go forward on their own?