Friendly reminder that blue lives don’t exist.
You choose to be a cop you don’t choose your skin color
Exactly. But the “blue lives matter” group only formed as a counter to Black Lives Matter so 🤷🏻♂️
Yeah… But it was promoted through money paid by Russian Intelligence in order to sow racial discord in America.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/russians-biggest-facebook-ad-promoted-blue-lives-matter
Somehow, that makes perfect sense. I’m not even a little surprised by that
This is my favorite argument to tell blue lives matter people. Along with my original point
I’ve even gotten a few of them to truly understand that it is inherently racist by design by using these two arguments specifically
Sorry, can you clarify what the argument is? I read the comment you replied to and it didn’t seem like an argument so much as a fact check, which while powerful requires something kind of different. Am I missing something?
That “Blue Lives Matter” wasn’t ever about caring about police lives, only a counter to Black Lives Matter. Black Lives Matter was formed because innocent black people kept being killed. Blue Lives Matter was formed because being challenged with that fact offended them.
When a police officer shoots a black man because he’s intimidated by his skin color, the defense “his life matters, too” is bullshit. Since Blue Lives Matter didn’t actually have anything to do with violence against police officers, it’s bullshit.
Ironically, I would say Blue Lives Matter caused people to target police officers, who really hadn’t been targeted before. One could argue it is more accurate that Blue Lives Matter caused more unjustified police incidents against black people, which caused more misguided vigilante-style violence against police.
So… what? The point remains that black lives exist, not blue lives.
I don’t understand what you’re getting at. In case my original comment wasn’t clear, I was (I guess too subtly) pointing out the problematic and racist origins of the blue lives matter phrase
You left the end of your statement unsaid so it wasn’t clear to me. It could be taken more than one way. Such as “Don’t complain that blue lives don’t exist, because if BLM hadn’t started it, blue lives wouldn’t even be a thing.”
Glad to know you didn’t mean it that way.
Gotcha yeah, sorry about that lol. Maybe I’ll edit my original comment to be a little clearer
Thanks for clarifying - no apology needed.
Yeah, but a lot of dumb people who could have supported BLM were swayed by Blue Lives Matter or All Lives Matter bullshit, especially if they work in or around emergency. There’s a lot of non-conservatives in emergency fields that are especially succeptable to that kind of bullshit despite being otherwise good human beings.
I’ve talked at least two away from the “Blue/All Lives Matter” ledge. You have to do it delicately, but the whole problem with all this shit is that there ARE people who are not really racist who can be convinced that “there’s a lot of cops dying in BLM riots” because that’s what they’re being told. When you have black friends who says “I don’t want to be anywhere near BLM because they just make us look bad”, you know that people are spreading some real fake shit. But instead of hating on them, you can just show them that BLM is not riots and Blue Lives Matter is not about stopping cops from being killed.
And then, the ones who aren’t racist… they do listen.
I am not an American, so I’m not means an expert on anything American. What I do think is that globally, us on the political left are shit at making slogans at least compared to the political right. While I can’t deny that Defund the Police resonated with people who have been oppressed by them their whole lives, I also can’t deny it doesn’t actually do anything to inform bystanders of the solution being proposed. The ‘gentry’ who actually have the political power to effect change, and in fact had the opposite effect. Honestly I think actors on the political right just spend a lot more time and money on spinning a good message.
Tl;Dr; BLMs message was so confusing it made it so right wing actors could flip Defund the Police on its head and scare centralists from the idea.
I’ll give a different angle, as I see it.
A problem is that reality is complicated and makes shit for soundbytes. That means your options are to lie to constituents, or to actually have policy ideals that are just harder to explain.
Defund the Police is a great example. We simply lean on the police too heavily. We DO need to defund them. They should not be the first line for mental health breaks, the first line for non-physical domestic disputes, etc. I know other countries do this, but in the US I would argue the current format of police shouldn’t be used for situations where violence is unlikely… and yeah, I mean things like driving infractions. Not only are they not great at it, but they are also not TRUSTED. In a country where someone getting a ticket for pulling through a stop sign literally fears for their life because they’re black, we should be offering a justice system that makes such a danger impossible because it won’t be kill-trained people with guns giving them their ticket.
Similarly, our police are over-equipped. Too many SWAT teams, used too lightly in situations without elevated risk or without enough red tape to require better information-gathering. And not unlike a bad comic book, SWAT team members have to hide their identity because they know the masses hate and fear them. I’ve known spouses of SWAT team members, and the rule is that nobody but those closest to you can know that’s what they do. Not unlike drug dealers.
So stepping back, all those things are a nice ball of “what I fucking want to vote for”. If you had 5 seconds to explain it, what would you say? I would say “defund the police”. Because it’s strictly accurate in a dozen ways AND it isn’t even pretending to say “abolish the police” because that would be “absolish the police”.
So yeah. The Right looks at Defund the Police and says “see, they’re trying to abolish the police. Let’s back the blue” and it’s all over.
I’m gonna say BLM was the same. BLM had clear numbers, clear figures, a clear message. Stop killing black people. They had people marching with (posters of) unarmed black people who were killed without any reasonable suspicion of a crime. They had everything you could need. But then you had an orange fascist prick saying “All lives matter”. NO SHIT all lives matter. But how many white people do these idiots know who have been wrongfullly abused by police? Post-BLM, we are way down on black deaths by cop; it’s only TWICE their representation.
You say you’re not an American, so I get it. But the real problem with BLM is exactly what we have complained it is… full-on-racism. BLM became a riot in many areas because White Supremecists working with the police started the riots to give an excuse to end the protests. The message was trampled on, not because it was bad, but because we are a horrible country right now. And yes, innocent people only see the fallout and the sound bytes on TV. When the most powerful man in the country has this message that “all lives matter”, anyone who is not politically savvy is going to just nod their head and agree.
You’ve made some good points. I hope that a fair number of people read through the whole post, but I fear that not enough will. Most seem to have about a three sentence threshold.
Bingo! And it’s kinda hard to make a soundbyte explanation for why something is too complicated for a soundbyte :)
You made some good points, I’ll have to think on it. Have an up-boat.
So… what? The point remains that black lives exist, not blue lives.
You mean ACAB doesn’t mean Assigned Cop At Birth?? 😱
I’m stealing this! Right on. “Blue Lives Matter” is just for Smurfs and the cyanotic.
This is Na’vi erasure.
The Dunmer haven’t been this shook since Red Mountain erupted.
The Andorians have it double bad, having to deal with the anti blue and anti antennae crowd.
Nobody even remembers the Andorians, too.
Except for that time the death star blew up thier planetYou’re thinking of Alderaan. I’m talking about Star Trek.
Yes I know
And people with argyria (though that’s a very self-inflicted issue…)
Isn’t soldier also a job?
Even if it’s counted, is it even more dangerous, counted using the same metrics? I have no idea, but it’s not far-fetched that it’s not, at least if we mean American soldiers. Like, it’s way more dangerous to be an Iraqi civilian than an American soldier.
Hell going to Iraq was safer than going on a drive in the US
It’s not a job.
It’s an adventure!
Really depends on the country. In the US, death rate is really low. There might be a couple instances of getting shot at, but you’re so much less likely to die of other causes it ironically makes up for it.
Of course, you get these spikes in death rates in the military, like if you’re sent to an active warzone. We just measure “dangerous jobs” by year.
But the other professions don’t need to defend themselves against blatant racism and abuse of power. “This is a dangerous profession, which is why we shot an unarmed black teenager 117 times.”
You had me in the first half not gonna lie
The most dangerous part of police work is vehicle accidents, just like delivery drivers.
Covid was also a top fatality result of police for a while there. Just showcasing their amazing decision making skills as they refuse to get vaccinated.
Clearly they represent the best of the best there.
My local city jail literally got shut down by the tail-end of the pandemic, because of all the COVID outbreaks due to none of the cops would wear masks.
Delivery drivers also are more likely than police to be subject to robberies…
It’s also not unheard of for robbery to end in murder.
I worked in a worker’s comp adjacent field for a while. The majority of injuries in police were absolutely vehicular in nature. Second place would be “was trying to chase a far more physically fit suspect on foot and fell/pulled something”, that happens waaaay more frequently than you would expect.
You forgot sex workers, which is actually the most dangerous job.
It’s one of 6 other jobs
Hand, blow, feet, rim, z. It’s 5 of the "6 other jobs.’
You deserve a medal 🏅
It’s probably not listed here, because it’s illegal in the USA
Depends, online, or real skin contact, in the EU or in africa?
could you elaborate why exactly
Violence and diseases. In consequence many sex workers get hurt regularly during their job, some get killed and many have PTSD and/or abuse drugs and alcohol.
In countries were sex work is legal this does not get significantly better, btw. I live in Germany where sex work is legal since 1950 or something and it’s a job you even have to pay tax for. They still suffer from violence. There was a protest this year to give better protection from violence.
So specifically prostitution is dangerous, not sex work in general
People forget about deep sea welders. Literally 15% fatality rate.
That’s insane. How in the world do they rationalize that to themselves?
Compress a large percentage of the world’s wealth into a small fraction of the population and suddenly 150k dollars a year, to potentially more based on the danger, seems worth it to some people.
150k? That’s it? People are risking their lives for 150k??? Hard to believe
You act like that’s not a ridiculous amount of money and that just shows why things are as bad as they are
Oh it’s a lot of money but with how many ways you can go about making that kind of money I can’t see how risking your life on those odds is worth it.
It’s easy.
You either make a shit load of money or you die.
Win win
Because they make ridiculous amounts of money. There are very few people who can do the job, it’s extremely dangerous and even if you don’t get injured or killed, it’s very hard on your body. Iirc most divers only do it 2-3 times a year because it takes a long time to safely decompress at the depths they usually work at (it can take days or even weeks) and then they have to take time off to physically and mentally recover.
i wonder if any of them ever decides to retire into an easier job and becomes an astronaut
Lots of money… like insane money for how much work it is.
It’s a combination of $2000/day wages, combined with a “I’m smarter than all those idiots who died” attitude.
As far as i know the most dangerous job is either Under Water Welder or Septic tank diver (yes thats a thing) among those, most heavy industry Jobs are very dangerous as well (mining, steelworks…)
Septic tank diver is the shittiest job. Change my mind.
I could make one up, but literally submersing yourself is hard to beat. Um… how about Professional sewage-eating-contest contestant?
What about fire fighters? At least they do everything in their power to keep your dog alive.
So they’re the opposite of the ATF?
Yeah, that does not rock.
But also
a very small minority of firefighters who are also active arsonists
Another way in which they are different.
How would this fit into Abigail Thorn’s (Philosophy Tube) analogy of arsonism?
New fear unlocked
No shame in fearing firefighters.
Be a waterfighter
Those are just fire bugs that didn’t think their career choice through.
Paramedics?
Other than car accidents and maybe the occassional biohazard, its probably more mentally taxing than anything. But IDK I’m no paramedic
VIPs!
Where do you get the idea that pilot is the 3rd most dangerous job? How often do you hear about pilots dying? And more dangerous than driving jobs? Lol no.
The majority of aircraft pilot fatalities occur in crashes of privately owned planes and helicopters rather than on regularly scheduled commercial jet aircraft.
https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-top-25-most-dangerous-jobs-in-the-united-states
By the way, most deaths aren’t reported on the news.
Police officers have the highest suicide rate after Doctors and Dentists. Not sure if it’s because of poor stress management or being constantly in contact with some of the shittiest people to live.
“being constantly in contact with some of the shittiest people to live.”
So other cops then. I’d probably kill myself too if I were a cop.
Lets be honest, plenty non cops are really shitty in ways different from the shitty that drives you to be a cop. Cops do deal with these other people as well. So a cop has shitty people on all sides.
Its an impossible tasks and society must construct itself as to not have police bc they cannot do the job asked even regardless of the value of the work (which is none as well)
Constant contact with guns too maybe.
Btw one of those six other jobs is pizza delivery.
is this some kind of quote from The Deprogram?
No, seriously. It’s more dangerous to be a pizza delivery guy than a cop.
ACAB
Assigned Cop at Birth
Yeah, I’d transition too.
I thought it would be “Assigned Cunt At Birth”
To paraphrase someone (can’t remember who), calling cops cunts is an unfair comparison: cops lack both the depth and the warmth, and don’t bring joy to anyone
Fair enough
Until we need them
For what?
Maybe someone who is armed and breaking into your grandmother’s home? Maybe crowd control for a municipal parade?
Maybe. Except they don’t show up until well after an incident, so I definitely don’t rely on them for my grandmothers safety.
Now a parade! Now we’re talking. If I had to stand around during a municipal parade I would definitely act like I have the most dangerous job. T hank the Lord for the boys in blue being there for parades!
Okay so we just kind of let all grandma’s be targets of crime because nobody will ever try to arrest you?
Yeah dude, sure. Whatever you say.
Some people (like the user above) seem to struggle with the concept that we can establish safer alternatives to police
Usually, they’re speaking from a place of privilege. There are many people who can’t rely on police to protect them (poor people, people of color, etc.), and if we have empathy, that should be all of our concern
ACAB
I thought the most dangerous one was president, at an 18% fatality rate (8 out of 45 so far)
I would guess it looks better if you include not USA
This is
RedditLemmy, everything is always America unless specified otherwise
There’s more than 45 presidents
I feel like a position of authority, the weapons, and the qualified immunity letting you put hands on anyone for any bullshit reason you want make you the danger, not in danger.
Removed by mod
Historically, shitty radio communication has gotten a LOT of people killed during emergencies. I’m perfectly willing to accept you can shave off a few percents of risk by getting Dutch cops better radios. But it’s hardly going to move the needle compared to “unskilled” Labour such as construction.
I do workplace safety in the Netherlands, so allow me to trot some numbers out.
3800 people die every year as a result of their jobs. 2500 from cancer, 700 from coronary issues. Over 400 die from falling or car crashes. So about 200 people die from all the stuff you’d generally associate with gruesome workplace hazards. Now, generally when I hold this talk, the point is “stop being a moron around chemicals”, but this time my point is “Dutch cops are really unlikely to die from their work”.
