It feels like a good year for a revolution, but I’ve got to remember Democrats are just Republicans with blue ties.
They don’t have actual principles like “not racist” or “against genocide,” they just have blue ties, even though it can be hard not to forget that.
The Nazis threatening to take over are the ones that want to take oil slower, wipe out Gaza slower, etc.
There’s no non-Nazi group trying to take over that tries not to abuse oil, refuses to recognize “Israel,” etc.
Helping the slow-pace Nazis beat the fast-pace Nazis is a vital step towards a better future and an obvious next step. It’s going to happen and you should help. Slow-pace Nazism buys us time.
But the gene pool has decayed too far into Nazism to stop there. The real solution doesn’t look like it will come with populist democracy. It looks like instead, new tech like robots can be used to overpower democracies, and the question is whether non-Nazis can control that tech and use it as a real solution.
It doesn’t even seem totally clear the events this year will help with that. We have to switch to slow-pace Nazism to buy time before more people are dying in the streets / concentration camps, but does that get us any closer at all to making sure Nazis don’t keep control forever?
The slow-pace Nazis are more competent than the fast-pace Nazis, so if anything, helping them might help stabilize Nazi control over the robots and stuff.
But Nazi control over robots and stuff cannot be totally stable. They’re not really tech geniuses, they just use capitalism to cheat actual tech geniuses. So you don’t really have to worry about vaguely making that “more stable.”
It’s definitely worth it to help the slow-pace Nazis overthrow the fast-pace Nazis, even if it vaguely “stabilizes” Nazi control. The important thing is to keep an eye on the future so you don’t back yourself into a corner, or hurt yourself with false hope, or run into other issues.
Don’t do anything for the slow-pace Nazis that makes it harder to build your own robot later, or makes chat bots lie more, or makes it harder to hold chat bots accountable for lies, etc. - help the slow pace Nazis how you can, but always be double checking your strategy to make sure it won’t hurt more later.
Edited to make slightly shorter
It’s definitely worth it to help the slow-pace Nazis overthrow the fast-pace Nazis, even if it vaguely “stabilizes” Nazi control.
This is a strange false-dichotomy. You shouldn’t be helping any Nazis.
If this is a “neolib centrists are also Nazis” take, you need to recalibrate your baselines: there are tons of groups out there in between wherever you (and those of us here on Beehaw) are on the ‘Left’ spectrum, and Nazis. Democrats are shitty, feckless, Capitalist, and even imperialist, but you can literally be all those things and not be a Nazi (debating whether Settler-Colonialism is worse than Nazism is a topic for another discussion- it’s still different, and Democrats aren’t pro-SetCol ideologically anyways).
You can’t invert or erase the hierarchical relationship between more general traits and systems with narrower group ideologies in order to make those traits or systems indicators of the group (like saying “Nazis eat food, so if you eat food, you’re a Nazi”). All Nazis are imperialist, but not all Imperialists are Nazis, for example.
I think this sort of irks me a lot because people need to be anti-Capitalist/ anti-neoliberal/ anti-imperialist for their own sake, not just because they’ve conflated them as being “Nazi things”, and thus inherited their opposition from an anti-Nazi stance by default. People need to understand why these things are bad.
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“Nazis eat food, so if you eat food, you’re a Nazi” = dumb and not what I said
“Nazis support eugenics, so if you support eugenics, you’re a Nazi” = dumb but something I’ve been told by what I presume is your type of person before
“Nazis support using mass murder for eugenics, so if you support using mass murder for eugenics, you’re a Nazi” = a fair way to read what I said
“Nazis serve the Nazi party of World War 2 era Nazi Germany, so if you serve the Nazi party of World War 2 era Nazi Germany, you’re a Nazi” = another fair way to read what I said, given the Haavara Agreement etc
dumb and not what I said
Hence the “like saying” part: it’s illustrative of the erasure of relationships that I’m talking about.
“Nazis support eugenics, so if you support eugenics, you’re a Nazi” = dumb but something I’ve been told by what I presume is your type of person before
Huh? I’m pretty sure I did literally the opposite of this when I said, “All Nazis are imperialist, but not all Imperialists are Nazis, for example.”
“Nazis support using mass murder for eugenics, so if you support using mass murder for eugenics, you’re a Nazi” = a fair way to read what I said
Sure, and do you think that Democrats support “using mass murder for eugenics”?
I despise Israel, for example, but I can also critically examine how we got to the level of support for them that we did as a country, including Democrats. Everything from the anti-Communist/ pro-Capitalist Red Scare propaganda, Islamophobia, racism, and a whole lot of moneyed interests, contribute to the US’s cultural support for Israel.
Eugenicists do not deny that moniker, it was literally created as a moniker by them for their pseudo-scientific framework to support genocide. Nazis very openly promoted that they were eugenicists. Israel on the other hand cloaks its eugenics in the language of/ mask of Securitization (which it learned/ inherited from America and Europe), which exists to give a veneer of deniability to it being a eugenicist State. Democrats who support Israel will deny that Israel is engaging in eugenics (another indicator that Democrats are in fact not Nazis).
Mass-incarceration is another case where eugenics is very relevant when examining its evolution from/ replacement of slavery, but is not the goal of Democrats.
If I’m incorrectly interpreting your meaning here, please tell me; I am not a Democrat, but I’m not going to label them “slow-moving Nazis” for rhetorical convenience/ expediency (nevermind that it’s counter-productive when trying to pull people away from identifying as Democrats).
do you think that Democrats support “using mass murder for eugenics”?
In case you missed the context, I was commenting on a likely Democrat going to a convention 5 years into an airborne pandemic that targets whoever its spreaders deem “genetically weak” (via its immune system test) to kill or disable.
Also 2 years into an active direct genocide in Gaza and many decades into the terrorist Israeli occupation of Palestine.
Israel on the other hand cloaks its eugenics in the language of/ mask of Securitization (which it learned/ inherited from America and Europe), which exists to give a veneer of deniability to it being a eugenicist State.
And Nazis denied that racism makes no sense. Denialism isn’t particularly what defines non-Nazis.
Mass-incarceration is another case where eugenics is very relevant when examining its evolution from/ replacement of slavery, but is not the goal of Democrats.
Show me the Democrats you’re talking about then, because I haven’t seen them - and make sure they also don’t do shit like go to “cons” 5 years into COVID, unless your goal was just a gish gallop of random subject changes.
I am not a Democrat, but I’m not going to label them “slow-moving Nazis” for rhetorical convenience/ expediency (nevermind that it’s counter-productive when trying to pull people away from identifying as Democrats).
Trying to pull them away is an outdated mindset. Nazis defeated electoral / constitutional democracy long ago. The question is whether we can pull control away from them, not change their minds. Denialism is actually kinda their thing, it gives them control rather than taking it away.
I was commenting on a likely Democrat going to a convention 5 years into an airborne pandemic that targets whoever its spreaders deem “genetically weak” (via its immune system test) to kill or disable.
I’m going to need a whole lot of context that’s not in this post. If you think this post is calling out a specific Democrat, you have not conveyed that at all.
And Nazis denied that racism makes no sense. Denialism isn’t particularly what defines non-Nazis.
“Nazis denied that racism makes no sense”. Wait, so you think that 1) racism makes no sense, and 2) Nazis denied it/ claim otherwise (i.e. they claim racism makes sense)? I think you’re severely mis-stating whatever you’re trying to convey. Racism is a very real thing, and it’s usually Republicans and Nazis who claim it makes no sense as a concept, and claim it’s just a label created to attack them for political purposes.
“Being racist makes no sense” is a very different statement than “racism makes no sense”. I think you meant to say the former.
Nazis denied that their beliefs were rooted in racism, because racism was (even in the 1930s) understood as a cognitive and cultural bias, not beliefs rooted in science or fact. They didn’t deny their own disdain for non-white people, they just denied that it was racism. Eugenics as a pseudo-scientific framework was developed in order to legitimize racist beliefs so that racists could openly tout those beliefs without them being labeled racist. Racists (Nazis included) didn’t want to have to deny their racism.
Denialism is in fact contra-indicative to Nazism, who were very concerned with legitimizing their beliefs openly, so as not to have to hide/ deny them.
I’m going to need a whole lot of context that’s not in this post. If you think this post is calling out a specific Democrat, you have not conveyed that at all.
My bad idk wtf happened there, what I typed doesn’t even seem coherent to me. I think I got confused what thread we were in because you’ve replied in a few of my threads today. Or maybe I meant to explain better how a different thread where I got banned for calling out COVID denialism was what reminded me how this powder keg moment for the Democrats isn’t necessarily a path to true progress on its own. Didn’t even remotely explain that though, just accused you of missing context, more like I mixed up the threads.
“Nazis denied that racism makes no sense”. Wait, so you think that 1) racism makes no sense, and 2) Nazis denied it/ claim otherwise (i.e. they claim racism makes sense)? I think you’re severely mis-stating whatever you’re trying to convey. Racism is a very real thing, and it’s usually Republicans and Nazis who claim it makes no sense as a concept, and claim it’s just a label created to attack them for political purposes.
Nazis, including America’s Republican and Democrat branches of the Nazi party, tend to uphold that racism makes sense - that you can divide the human race up into a few smaller races by grouping ethnicities together with similar skin colors.
Science has developed far enough past this to make it a great example of denialism, which is a hallmark of Nazism rather than non-Nazim.
Nazis denied that their beliefs were rooted in racism, because racism was (even in the 1930s) understood as a cognitive and cultural bias, not beliefs rooted in science or fact. They didn’t deny their own disdain for non-white people, they just denied that it was racism.
I don’t believe you on this part and even if it was true it just seems like a nitpick since I could just replace “racism” with “ethnic purging” and make the point impossible to argue
Denialism is in fact contra-indicative to Nazism, who were very concerned with legitimizing their beliefs openly, so as not to have to hide/ deny them.
You are incorrect, Nazis are famous for denialism, e.g. systemically denying that their war criminal lives are less valuable than the lives of civilians
I love this maga crap. the aweful things we do well our opponents would govern the same way even though you clearly have experience living under them and us and one was waaaayyyyyyy better.
Not sure I read your comment correctly but if so, my response:
With Republicans we have people dying in the streets yesterday, and concentration camps tomorrow (metaphorically)
With Democrats we have people dying in the streets today, and concentration camps the day after tomorrow (metaphorically)
I have to live in reality and not metaphors. With every party and every government of all of mankind everywhere that has had streets people have died in them. Its a rediculous statement because its applying something not true by using something that is universally true.
In reality and not metaphors, we would not be in the situation we are in today if people were more careful how they support “their side” instead of just supporting Democrats blindly.
Voting for Democrats does not help. Donating to Democtats does not help. I hope you already know lying for Democrats is even further from helping.
Talking about the good things they do helps. Talking about the bad things they do helps. That helps the better ones win, right?
You have to think about your choices if you want things to really get better.
We might never have concentration camps if people stop helping Democrats prop up Republicans and start forcing Democrats to work as a tool against Republicans.
We would be in a better situation if republicans had not won at all. Without reagan we would still have regulation and sane taxes, without ginggrich we would have had universal healthcare under clinton, gore would have kept us in the paris accords and we would be below 1.5 and 911 would not have happened as well as the subsequent wars. There is not blind support but better is better than worse and primaries are a thing. Biden was one of the best presidents of my lifetime and many idiots in the us decided not supporting his administration to keep going was worse than having trump again. Stupid is as stupid does.
We would be in a better situation if republicans had not won at all.
Baseless statement without considering how different the Republicans would be in a world where Democrat voters force Democrat politicians to serve the public interest instead of just propping Republicans up.
Biden was one of the best presidents of my lifetime
Literally declared the pandemic over and encouraged people to stop wearing masks, wtf
I disagree. Im not going to argue over something you can point to be technically true or a point where I believe in my statment and you do not. We are at the point were you just live in a different world than I and unfortunately right now you are driving the direction more than I.
