I’m a pretty heavy torrent user, running a media server complete with sonarr/radarr for automatic downloads. I download a lot, and have multiple TBs of upload on various private trackers. I’ve been torrenting forever, but I’ve always wondered about usenet. Over and over on this, and other, forums I see people saying that usenet is way better - but why?
I understand what it is overall, but what makes it better than traditional torrenting? In my mind, it’s always just seemed like a different means to the same end. I pay for a VPN and torrent for “free”, or I pay for usenet access and download directly from there. As someone who’s “snobby” around the quality of the stuff I torrent, does usenet provide an advantage there?
Usenet fans, I’d love to hear what makes you love it! I’m always open to trying new things, and if It really is better I’d love to know why! (Plus, maybe what providers/tools etc you recommend).
I’ve been using Usenet for about 20 years. So many upsides.
Usenet traffic is essentially indistinguishable from normal internet traffic, so you don’t have to worry about hiding your activity with a VPN (though you still can of course). And since you don’t need to upload/seed anything, you’re safe in that regard.
Downloads are pretty much always available, no seeds. Once a file is uploaded and propagated across all the servers, everyone can just download it at whatever full speed their connection allows. I saturate my connection at around 110 Megabytes per second. There are retention times based on your Usenet provider, but they’re incredibly high these days so I doubt you’d come across many incomplete downloads, if any.
Quality is consistent. This is the biggest deal for me, as I’m incredibly snobby about quality. Want 4K SDR because the HDR on your TV sucks? You can find it for most new shows. Want a version with a super-high bitrate? It’s usually out there. Full untouched BluRay rips? Definitely. Nearly all media is available from SD up through 4K, from consistent uploaders/groups so you can rely on the overall quality. And since you don’t have to worry about seeding or download speeds, you can grab the highest quality you want as long as you have enough disk space.
Automation is a cinch with native arr integrations, and new shows and movies are usually available right after they air, often before it’s finished airing. If a show airs at 8pm you can usually grab it by 8:15, 9:15 at the latest.
Keep an eye out on Black Friday, providers usually have awesome deals.
I am the same as OP, although I’ve never managed to automate my torrents. I kind of enjoy the browse and bulk download method. But I’ve heard of Usenet for like decades at this stage, is it an invite only service or is there many variations? How would I go about joining?
You gotta pay. I posted an explanation on usenet as a reply to this post. You can find more info, such as specific providers and indexers, in the /r/usenet wiki.
Curious how it is now as I used to be a Usenet person back when fserves and bots on IRC channels were some of the best ways to request and get nzbs to throw into your Usenet client. I’ve been a torrent user on private trackers for the last 15 years and while I have everything automated, I still run into quality issues or rogue releases with inaccurate language info / subtitles / etc
I’m relatively new to usenet myself and have both torrent and usenet tied to my *arr automations. From what I can tell, for newer stuff they’re less distinguishable than for older stuff. Things basically get uploaded in both places for the most part, so you can also get duds on usenet, the same duds you’d get on torrents.
Thanks! Interesting, if I can get better-categorized releases that would for sure be a plus. And I’m always happy to have faster downloads!
Does Usenet have content other than just shows or films? Like games, books, etc?
Oh yeah, books galore. Plenty of games too, but be cautious with that kind of thing…wouldn’t trust them to be honest.
OK, let me mention some important caveats, just so you can keep them in mind:
You can think of usenet like the internet. You have data on servers all around the world, you have sites such as Google which index these sites and content, and you have your ISP which gives you access to the internet.
Likewise, on usenet you have the data scrambled on servers all around the world, on different backbones of the usenet. These backbones are accessed through service providers for the backbones (sometimes they’re resellers, sometimes it’s the backbone selling access). These service providers operate just like an ISP, selling you monthly or yearly access to the usenet backbone of your choosing.
Then there’s the Googles of usenet, Indexers. There’s a ton, they vary a bit from one another, but essentially they find all there is to find on usenet, presenting the files to you as a whole. You want a specific… Ahem… Linux iso? An indexer will know where all the pieces are and it will tell you with an NZB file, kind of like how torrent files tell you where to look. Indexers can be a monthly subscription, but some of them offer lifetime subscriptions as well, and they don’t break the bank.
The last bit you’ll need is your download client, to do what you do for torrents. These are free tools, sabnzbd and nzbget. Either one works.
So, I did mention there’s multiple backbones of usenet. Indexers don’t lock themselves to specific backbones, and no indexer covers everything there is on usenet, which means that to get the most out of usenet, you’d ideally have multiple indexers and multiple providers (making sure you don’t get providers from the same backbone as they’d essentially have the same data). Multiple indexers give higher chances of finding something on a search, while multiple backbones increase your chances of finding all the pieces needed to complete a file. This is not absolutely necessary, but dare I say you’ll notice the difference as soon as you bump things up to 2 of each.
So, essentially, usenet is by far the best method for completing your media library (leaving torrents as a desperate backup route), but it can become expensive.
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They do! All of these backbone comply with takedown requests. Some comply with DMCA requests only, some comply with NTD requests only, and some comply with both. It’s actually another thing you could consider when selecting your providers, you check their takedown policies. By mixing and matching, you increase your chances of finding every part of your file.
So, the thing saving usenet in particular, is that the pieces of the file get scattered through the usenet, and you require indexers to find the whole thing. This makes it difficult for takedown requests to actually take down the whole file. Sometimes the best they can do is remove a few parts, and you can repair your file with what’s left. Sometimes they do win, but it happens infrequently enough that you should be able to complete most of your media library without issue.
Thanks a bunch for the explanation! One followup question though: how do I find a decent indexer that’s working well with the arr world? I briefly looked into it and frankly was overwhelmed by the amount out there - and some of those pages straight out look fishy…
Thanks in advance! ♥
Boy are you in luck! A quite decent indexer that is normally invite only just opened registrations for what I assume is a very limited time: DrunkenSlug. They have a free tier which is limited to 25 API hits and 5 downloads per day. For €15/year, that gets bumped up to 1000 API hits and 100 downloads per day.
Another popular one that doesn’t require an invite: NZBgeek. They don’t have a free tier. I don’t think they have any hard limits on API hits and downloads. Pricing is $6/6mo, $12/yr, $40/5yr and $80/lifetime.
Thanks!
But now I’ll have to decide if I wait for black Friday for a test run with a provider or if I’m greedy :D
Since Black Friday isn’t too far away, it’s probably worth waiting. Just make sure to snag a DrunkenSlug account while it’s open.
I grabbed my first nzb from drunkenslug, but Google results for an nzb client seem to be SEO-spammed and full of clients that are their own indexing platforms. Is nzbget good? It’s the only one I could find that doesn’t look like it’s trying to sell me something.
NZBGet is good and I used it for a long time, but it’s no longer receiving any updates. I might recommend SABnzbd instead since it’s still actively being updated.
As a disclaimer, I’m someone relatively new to usenet
Usenet has provided a much more consistent option for media quality for my server. Most titles in the last 20-25 years have around ten distributions ranging from 720p to 4k. The biggest difference are downloads. It’s no contest: better bandwidth with much much more consistent speeds. You won’t stumble on something with one seeder on a 300kbps connection. There’s no requirement to seed content back, although I recognize that if you’re using private torrent trackers this is likely the case for you already
Overall I enjoy how much better usenet is to gather media from when it comes to the amount of time from request -> server availability
Interesting, faster downloads would for sure be a plus as you’re right that sometimes you get stuck with something crazy slow using torrents
They’re essentially direct downloads and some services have retention that’s goes back quite a while so you don’t have to worry as much about a lack of seeders. Since it’s not peer to peer the downloads are more consistent and consistently fast. ISPs don’t (yet) police Usenet traffic the same way they do torrenting. Since you’re not seeding anything back you aren’t technically breaking any (US) laws.
I don’t generally use either torrenting or usenet lately, though, so someone else could probably do a better job of this. The last time I used usenet was around 10 years ago and torrenting around 3. And I only used torrenting because it was easy to set up on Kodi with Seren.
Usenet is basically a forum so that’s where all the benefits lie. Files are split up into multiple parts and then propagated to various servers. So, just like BitTorrent, you’re downloading a file from multiple places at the same time and also are downloading multiple parts of the file at the same time.
The difference, though, is that, whereas with BitTorrent you’re reliant on the speed of someone else’s internet connection and the hope that enough people have enough parts of the file, Usenet files are hosted on dedicated servers and every file is mirrored to every Usenet mirror. These are typically dedicated connections too so the speeds are nice and fast.
The other less-used benefit is that BitTorrent files don’t really have a way to recover a download if the source file is corrupted or incomplete. If you download a file from a torrent and one of the users seeding has a corrupted part, you have to verify the contents of the file and then your client has to find a valid part to download from. This isn’t a big deal but can be a problem when a file or torrent has few seeds. With Usenet, your download comes with Parity (.par) files. These files are checksums that allow you to recover any number of parts or files so long as you have enough .par files downloaded to cover the number of pieces missing. This means that you can download incomplete archives at any point and you’re never reliant on other users since the .par files are also uploaded by the initial poster.
Both have their benefits and drawbacks but Usenet mostly wins on the first-past-the-post timeframe. BitTorrent probably wins as time goes on because it’s very rare for a torrent to have bad pieces or anything after the first day or 2 of the initial upload. Also, most scene releases are posted to Usenet first. So, if your concern is getting released as soon as possible, Usenet wins. If you want ease and not a lot of fucking around, BT wins.
Have been torrenting for over 20 years and never had a problem with corrupted files 🤷🏼♂️
I mean, that’s completely subjective since you just wouldn’t be able to download those parts from another seeder. You may have had issues and just never noticed because it shows up as not having any valid seeders. There’s a reason every torrent client has an option to verify your data, though.
Who is hosting the files that a person downloads from usenet? Isn’t there a concern someday that they’ll decide not to host anymore and now that media can’t be accessed?
You’re paying them money, so it’s in their best interest to keep hosting.
The uploader uploads their stuff to their own Usenet provider (whom they’re probably paying for). Usenet servers are frequently mirroring/syncing with each other. So very quickly after the uploader uploads, you will find their post on your Usenet provider, and you download directly from them.
If a Usenet provider someday decided not to host any more, they would be out of business (because who would use them), and so you’d switch to a different Usenet provider, where you’d find exactly the same stuff mirrored.
Usenet providers compete/distinguish themselves mostly based on:
- Cost (duh)
- Speed (duh)
- Retention. This means “how long is a post kept on our servers after it’s been uploaded”. Some cheaper providers might have only 30 day retention while some might have 180 day retention, etc. If you’re only interested in recent posts/releases, it might not matter as much to you.
- Tooling. Most Usenet providers have a web-based interface, with varying levels of service. Can you search for a specific filename, do different types of filtering, etc. Many providers will automatically package together files that have been split up, so you only have one download, and don’t have to worry about par files and unrar and all that. Some will give you thumbnail previews, or even short video previews, of videos before you download, so you can check quality and language (important!! Some people on Usenet don’t even bother to label the fact that they’re uploading, say, a Spanish language version of something)
- Obscure communities. Many people do still use Usenet for discussion, its original purpose. If that’s you, you’re going to want to check that the provider you choose is going to have alt.fan.obscure.howdy-doody-berenstain-bears-crossover-fanfic.bonk.bonk.bonk or whatever weird interest you and 3 other people in the world have. You might think since the discussion communities are so low-bandwidth every provider would just carry everything, but you might be surprised.
What provider has such low retention? I’ve never seen such a thing. The lowest I can find is 600 days, with most being between 2000 and 5000.
Also some corrections, the provider doesn’t package anything together. The indexers do that in the form of an nzb file. Unraring is still necessary, but most download clients will do that for you.
Does the retention period mean that older content (say, a show from a decade ago) is less likely to be present?
Not really, especially when you use the 5000+ ones since that is nearing 14 years. Also, people re-upload old stuff all the time. If you want, you can give me some examples of what you think might not be available and I’ll let you know if it’s there.
I was assuming that typically people only post really in demand stuff, but if the period is a decade, someone probably posted I dunno Bucky O’hare or Street Sharks in that time.
Yup, found both of those.
A Usenet server will typically host the files and then delete them after a set period of time. Most servers won’t typically go less than 30 days and a few will go for months. It’s what makes the OP question more of a decision between wanting something as soon as possible with quick downloads vs wanting it any time outside of that initial period at whatever speed it’s available at.
If your provider is only retaining files for a few months, you really should switch. Most are over 2000 days retention, with many being over 5000. Eweka, for example, is 5050+ and NewsgroupDirect 3500+.
I have no need for that. My use case only needs them for a week tops so retention is not my main factor.
I see what you’re saying, and if that fits your use case, that’s great. The main point is offering information to the OP though. We don’t want them thinking Usenet is limited to only downloading the latest releases.
It’s what makes the OP question more of a decision between wanting something as soon as possible with quick downloads vs wanting it any time outside of that initial period at whatever speed it’s available at.
Since they’re asking about usenet vs torrenting, this might be interpreted as usenet not being useful for older stuff. This is simply not the case with the vast majority of providers, assuming access to a good indexer or two.
That’s fine but retention means that, at some point, those files will be removed even if that means it happens after a time. There’s not really a fear of that for torrents so long as everyone seeds as intended.
Thanks! Good to know about the parity, I’ve never had issues with corrupted torrents algorithm I’ve heard before it can happen. The first-past-the-post bit is interesting, could be useful for stuff that’s much newer/ still airing…
It’s just a historical artifact. Most scene groups release to Usenet first and then, from there, it gets to torrent sites. If you’re also on Usenet, you can just grab the files right away and then start seeding a torrent immediately.
Direct download from high speed servers
Can anyone tell me if Usenet is any good for more obscure stuff? I mean if I want to find, say, that episode where Hyacinth says “Mind the cyclist Richard!”, would I be able to find it?
I’ve found a lot of obscure stuff on use net but there are still some things, mainly Asian movies that I have only found on private torrent trackers.
It’s better because you don’t have to worry about ratios or finding torrents with seeders. You just download the media at whatever the maximum speed your connection can handle is. So you could, for example, download a 4gb episode for something 30 seconds after Sonarr checks for it.
As for the technical aspects, you don’t have to worry too about it, because since you use Sonarr it will handle most of the work, just like it does with torrents. The only problem I’ve found is there’s often not a lot of lower quality stuff on Usenet, so unless you tweak your Sonarr settings you’re gonna end up downloading 40gb anime episodes, because that’s the first thing Sonarr finds.
Once you play with the quality sliders it works really well. What indexers are you using? I use nzbgeek, nzb.su, and DS and there are plenty of sub 1080p files available.
