I get that it’s open source provided you use codium not code but I still find that interesting

  • ???@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    219
    arrow-down
    15
    ·
    1 year ago

    Because the hate is based on their shitty OS. They did a fairly good job with VSCode. Our hate isn’t blind.

    • nottheengineer@feddit.de
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      103
      arrow-down
      8
      ·
      1 year ago

      VScode is the epitome of the EEE strategy. The core product is open-source, but it’s filled to the brim with tracking and the official extensions have DRM. Yes, there’s DRM on your python LSP.

      Anyone who gives a shit should look for alternatives right away. The problem is just that there aren’t any that are as easy to set up.

    • tomten@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      1 year ago

      Not hate in my case, but I don’t like ms and it’s because of the shit they have done in 90s and 2000s. Their current support of linux is not something I trust.

        • Franzia@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          1 year ago

          My baby actually. Look, MS is a powerful company and they’re making a lot of desperate strategic purchases as their main business corrodes. Their brand is more based on gaming. Their infrastructure? The cloud and github. They’ve got the butter and they’re looking for bread to slap it across.

          • nilloc@discuss.tchncs.de
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            Yeah, I have a deep seated fear for the future of GitHub in the long run. Seems too ripe for eventual enshitification.

            • Franzia@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              Well, this seems inevitable. But on the other hand, Github is really unique in the business and labor market too.

              1. Huge and important companies depend on it for hosting code.
              2. These same companies depend on open source projects.
              3. These same companies depend on programmers posting to their Github to share examples of their skills with the world, being potential employees.

              Now if you can enshittify Github in a way that doesn’t fuck with how important people use it too much, it will be after changes to how the tech hiring environment works - worldwide.

  • haruki@programming.dev
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    129
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    1 year ago

    I hate Google but they gave us Go, Kubernetes. I hate Amazon but they gave us AWS. I plainly hate those companies, but adore the brilliant engineers that work there.

    • OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      78
      ·
      1 year ago

      This one is a bigger issue. One of the projects I used to contribute to moved to Gitlab, and saw a significant decrease in organic contributors. GitHub simply has more users, better SEO, and a better ecosystem

    • flashgnash@lemm.eeOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      17
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      True but GitHub wasn’t always Microsoft and at least in my experience moving between git providers is a pain

          • Captain Beyond@linkage.ds8.zone
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            GitHub allows you to select any license (including a proprietary license) or no license at all. This does not mean that GitHub encourages one to select a free software license or any license at all.

            In 2014, John Sullivan, then Executive Director of FSF, also asserted that GitHub’s choosealicense.com was anti-copyleft.

            Anti-copyleft bias noted by Stallman and Sullivan is evident from the very beginning, from the founder Tom Preston-Werner himself. In 2011, Preston-Werner wrote that one should “open source (almost) everything” under a permissive license, because the GPL is “too dogmatic,” but keep “anything that represents business value” proprietary.

      • aleq@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        13
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        How is it a pain? You just change the origin on your existing project, and new projects you just use the new one to start with.

    • darcy@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      45
      ·
      1 year ago

      you get trapped in Vim because you dont know how to exit.

      i get trapped because ive sunk so much time configuring

      • MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        Agreed to the latter point. The only reason why I might not use vim is to copy-paste some code in and out of the file, in which case I prefer plain text editors.

        With that said, I’m a purist who uses vim without any external plug-ins (other than the files I wrote myself in ftplugin). Use vim on a remote machine whilst SSHed into it from a windows machine and wanting to copy-paste stuff in and out is a major pain which is why I downloaded Vscode in the first place. This piece of cancer is not touching my linux machine.

        • darcy@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          based asl for using vim without plugins. although what is difficult about copy/pasting? i think u can get vim to use the system clipboard with a command

          • MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            Indeed, however I’m using Windows as the host, whilst SSHed into my development machine.

            Yes, integration with the system clipboard does make things somewhat easy. I would still use a simple GUI text editor if I was using my mouse though (like copying from a website using a mouse).

  • onlinepersona@programming.dev
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    59
    ·
    1 year ago

    My bigger problem is many swear on FLOSS, but using Apple is OK. Go to a FLOSS conference and there are Macs everywhere.

    It’s undeniable that Microsoft has had positive influences on the opensource world with language servers, debug adapter protocol, an inbrowser editor that is seemingly embedded in any website with a code editor, cross-platform C# (maybe that’s a curse though, I dunno), linux contributions, and probably more I’m not aware of. Apple… I dunno. Vendor lock-in and more electronic trash?

  • OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    66
    arrow-down
    12
    ·
    1 year ago

    VSCode isn’t even that good, idk why people are obsessed with it.

    For anything compiled, Jetbrains beats it 100:1, and for anything interpreted it’s a couple tiers better than Kate.

    Personally, I won’t be losing sleep if I have to stop using VSCode.

    • words_number@programming.dev
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      43
      ·
      1 year ago

      If jetbrains is that much better really depends on the language. Also, jetbrains shit is damn expensive, so not a fair comparison.

      • SteveTech@programming.dev
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        15
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        They have free ‘community editions’, I haven’t really found a need for a licence. I’ve only used IntelliJ, PyCharm, and ReSharper though.

        Edit: I meant rider but I was using a student licence for it anyway.

        • Treeniks@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          26
          ·
          1 year ago

          IntelliJ and PyCharm are the only JetBrains IDEs with community editions. If you want to use CLion for example, you’ll either have to be a student or you have to pay.

          • Vilian@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            or the project being opensource(it’s i read right now) don’t know how it work tho

            • Dandroid@dandroid.app
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              5
              ·
              1 year ago

              Your project needs to be at least 3 months old with regular commits of code files (text files, readmes, or any other non code don’t count). That’s pretty much it.

              I just went through the process, but since my project is only a month old, I got rejected. They told me to apply again in 2 months. My project is in Python, so I’m just using the community edition in the meantime, which is fine. I just really want the test code coverage feature of the paid version.

      • sultry@feddit.de
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        Also, jetbrains shit is damn expensive

        Is it though? Considering the amount of time you spent in it and the potential productivity increase it might give you I’d consider it very fairly priced.

        • wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          9
          ·
          1 year ago

          Expensiveness does not have to mean it isn’t priced fairly. Not everyone has the money to drop on tools like it, or is able to get their work to pay for it, even it is worth it.

        • words_number@programming.dev
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          For some time now I mostly write rust and I’m actually very satisfied with VS Code and rust-analyzer. I tried intelliJ-rust but didn’t find it better. To be fair, I haven’t tried the new jetbrains rust IDE though.

    • SquiffSquiff@lemmy.sdf.org
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      24
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      The thing is the VS code handles everything (with extensions). If I want to use pandoc, or CSV to markdown table, python linting, Go, whatever, there’s extensions that can handle all of these equally well and consistently, for example format on save.

      If I want to use jetbrains then the pycharm for python, intelliJ for Java, Goland for golang… Then there’s licencing depending on whether I’m using a personal licence or corporate laptop, whether I have to get a licence from my employer etc.

      For me it’s not so much that it’s so good, but that it works with everything in a consistent and obvious way plus I can install it on any machine I might be using.

      • insomniac@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        8
        ·
        1 year ago

        The Intellij plugin ecosystem is pretty good. Granted my day job is 80% Java/Kotlin but I also need python and ruby and go and the plug-ins have never let me down. I don’t have pycharm or Ruby Mine or Goland installed.

        The license also explicitly lets you use your work license for personal stuff or your personal license for work stuff. The only difference is who pays. You also don’t need a license to use the community edition.

        It’s also pretty good at CSV and markdown files. I might be biased because I spend probably 60 hours a week using Intellij but I don’t find any of your points against it to be accurate.

        • Walnut356@programming.dev
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          The freemium and constant “are you sure you dont want to pay?” from some intellij plugins is insulting enough that it’s hard to believe any developer would praise it. Presumably this doesnt happen in vscode because it cant happen in vscode, not because people arent shameless enough to do it there.

            • Walnut356@programming.dev
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              Ick. At the very least, i’ve seen it a LOT less in VSC. The fact that something as simple as rainbow brackets uses the freemium model in intellij sucks. I mean the fact that it’s not a builtin setting is dumb too but that’s beside the point

    • flashgnash@lemm.eeOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      22
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Jetbrains IDEs are not free though are they?

      I also quite like the light touch feel you get from code, I can use it for any language and am not going to have to navigate through hundreds of language specific features I don’t need unless I install them myself

      Kate might do similar but I can’t imagine the extension pool is big enough to compete and I think at that point I’d just use a commandline editor instead

      • morhp@lemmy.wtf
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        Some are, the intellij java community edition is even open source. The paid ones are not too expensive, I pay around 200€ yearly for the all products pack and that’s definitely worth it for a professional developer. If you are a student or open source developer, you can apply for free versions also.

    • Zeth0s@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      20
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      VSCode is a modern emacs. Similar concept, a single editor to do everything via extensions. That’s the selling point. “young people” never had the chance to work with a similar concept, this is why they found it so revolutionary (despite being a concept from the 70s).

      I use it because I am forced to use a windows laptop at work, and emacs on windows is a painful experience

    • uberrice@feddit.de
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      17
      ·
      1 year ago

      I use vscode because I do a lot of embedded.

      Used to be that you had to jump through some hoops to make it work - make your own makefiles and stuff. Now, all the major vendors of MCUs are starting to develop vscode plugins as their “IDE” instead of those horrible ultramodified eclipse installs.

    • equidamoid@feddit.nl
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      1 year ago

      Exactly. Jetbrains stuff is great.

      With one notble exception: Android Studio, but it only sucks only because of the way Android is. And there is no alternative anyway…

    • jelloeater - Ops Mgr@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      Right tool for the right job. Like I use VSCode for PowerShell on AWS Windows boxes over SSH, works great. But for Python or Terraform, JetBrains Suite is just better in everyway.

    • not_amm@beehaw.org
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      I write small scripts in NeoVim and larger projects in VSCodium because it provides most of what I need and doesn’t consume a lot of resources. It’s a good tool, you can also use forks or alternatives, and i think that’s the spirit of open source, isn’t it?

      I also have been trying Kate, works greats and with even better performance.

    • baconicsynergy@beehaw.org
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      I like VSCode because I can run it in a development container and because its the only FOSS IDE with an extension for IEC 61131-3 ST that I am aware of

  • JackbyDev@programming.dev
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    48
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    1 year ago

    Your daily reminder that VSCode is shit not because of telemetry (take your time foil hat off for one second and hear me out and I say that jokingly with love) but because the extension marketplace is not allowed to be accessed by third party tools (INCLUDING CODIUM) and even then many of the extensions are proprietary, closed source. You’re not even allowed to distribute compiled VSIX files. It’s disgusting. Reading about the troubles gitpod faced that led to the (now) Eclipse Marketplace (idk the name, but it’s for VS Code plugins, don’t be tricked, it’s just owned by Eclipse foundation) is disheartening.

  • CrypticCoffee@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    41
    ·
    1 year ago

    Those that truly dislike MS and telemetry won’t.

    If I’m using non-free it is Jet Brains.

    I tend to use Kate, KDevelop.

    MS still slurping code into Copilot from Github and telemetry in VSCode.

  • StarkillerX42@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    41
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    1 year ago

    VSCode is an open source IDE. Its biggest rival is the JetBrains suite. When the alternatives are proprietary, VSCode is a win.

  • krimson@feddit.nl
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    34
    ·
    1 year ago

    Neovim user here. Granted it takes some time to setup properly but it’s really fast with navigating through files, lsp functions and doing a search in thousands of files.

    I found vscode too slow and bloated for my taste.

    • flashgnash@lemm.eeOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      Having come from full fat visual studio and using fairly fast machines VS code is a breeze to use.

      Though I can’t imagine it can compare to commandline stuff in that regard obviously

      Is there much reason to learn vim nowadays? I was under the impression it’s mostly around for people who got used to it back in the day

      • steeznson@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        11
        ·
        1 year ago

        Knowing vim is pretty essential for working on servers. My usual setup is ssh + tmux + vim. I suppose you could substitute nano for vim if it’s installed.

        • flashgnash@lemm.eeOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          I’ve not run into a server without nano installed yet and it’s perfectly serviceable if all I need is to edit one value in a config file

        • MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          I have the exact same setup.

          Do you use tmux on your main computer, especially if you’re using a WM? I can’t imagine the need for tmux with tiling window managers if you have workspaces and can partition windows how you like.

          • nybble41@programming.dev
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            Not the GP but I also use tmux (or screen in a pinch) for almost any SSH session, if only as insurance against dropped connections. I occasionally use it for local terminals if there is a chance I might want a command to outlive the current graphical session or migrate to SSH later.

            Occasionally it’s nice to be able to control the session from the command line, e.g. splitting a window from a script. I’ve also noticed that wrapping a program in tmux can avoid slowdowns when a command generates a lot of output, depending on the terminal emulator. Some emulators will try to render every update even if it means blocking the output from the program for the GUI to catch up, rather than just updating the state of the terminal in memory and rendering the latest version.

            • MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              I would definitely use tmux on my servers, but I’m wondering about why I’d use it for the desktop. Your use-case of needing commands/output beyond the need of a graphical interface is interesting (would like to know a couple of examples), I should probably consider that.

              I can do the splitting with a window manager though, wouldn’t need tmux for that. I agree with the program GUI part.

              • nybble41@programming.dev
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                Examples of local commands I might run in tmux could include anything long-running which is started from the command line. A virtual machine (qemu), perhaps, or a video encode (ffmpeg). Then if I need to log out or restart my GUI session for any reason—or something goes wrong with the session manager—it won’t take the long-running process with it. While the same could be done with nohup or systemd-run, using tmux allows me to interact with the process after it’s started.

                I also have systems which are accessed both locally and remotely, so sometimes (not often) I’ll start a program on a local terminal through tmux so I can later interact with it through SSH without resorting to x11vnc.

                • MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Thanks for the comment. Long-running commands make a lot of sense.

                  Do you happen to run your GUI session inside of a tmux session? If you log in and out, wouldn’t the tmux session inside of the user-session terminate?

      • debil@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        7
        ·
        1 year ago

        If you have to ask, maybe not. But if you’re mostly “keyboard driven”, code and edit files a lot, it’s (vim or neovim) very much worth trying out.

      • ebits21@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        ·
        1 year ago

        It’s great if you get used to it and put in the time to set it the way you want it. I find IDE’s very bloated.

      • krimson@feddit.nl
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        1 year ago

        For me personally I am most productive in Neovim. But if you can’t be arsed to fiddle around with config files to get things set up it’s probably not worth the effort.

        Use what works best for you.

        • flashgnash@lemm.eeOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          I think I’ll probably end up doing it regardless because I have a weird urge to make everything as difficult and custom as possible

          Got used to gnome, finally got it just how I liked it then threw it out for hyprland

      • lameJake@feddit.de
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        1 year ago

        I’m in my 6th semester and use neovim so no it’s not mostly around for people who got used to it back in the day. A lot of my fellow students use it as well. It’s the only editor I use because you can use it to edit a single file as well as a whole project and everything is always how I want it to be. Also once you get used to it I guarantee you, you will wonder how people navigate code only using mouse and the arrow keys. It is just a beauty to quickly copy a code block or change a word with 3 keystrokes.

      • MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        I’ve been using VIM for 7 years or so, at this point. I’ve configured it the way I like.

        The point of using it is that there is simply no other text editor which lets you edit text in such a manner. Granted, the keyword shortcuts can seem strange and obtuse in the beginning, but get used to it and you wouldn’t want to use anything else anymore. I’m using the VIM extension in VSCode right now and dearly miss my .vimrc which I configured so carefully on my Linux machine.

        • flashgnash@lemm.eeOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          Vscode can actually run over ssh but you need to install the Vscode server which is not ideal for some

    • haruki@programming.dev
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Just the matter of taste. For some users who want to get to code quickly, they use VSCode without the hassle. For some power users who want to have extreme extensibility, they use Emacs/Vim.

  • HurlingDurling@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    31
    ·
    1 year ago

    Don’t use vscode, use vsCodium, all the goodness of vscpde with none of the sleezy ms tracking