I think the other side that doesn’t get explored very often is how convenience food makers have gotten everybody hooked and unable to cook anymore.
Now that that is generally locked-in behavior in our society, the price goes through the roof.
I know people that literally do not know how to make rice because it’s “too hard”.
We should acknowledge that grocery prices have gone up in that price-gouging is rampant. We should also acknowledge that most of people’s money spent at the grocery store is to exchange hundreds of dollars of extra money, for minutes less preparation.
In this picture of this person paid $10 for a pound of “burger”. A pound of ground beef or tofu is a third that price. It takes a minute to slap a couple patties together or to slice off a few slabs, dry them and fry them.
I really feel like we need to enhance this conversation. I think a lot of people don’t want to have it because they want to have the convenience but not the price and it’s just not sustainable anymore. I think people need to look at their own dietary lifestyle, and consider what they’re trading for that convenience.
A pound of ground beef or tofu is a third that price.
I understand what you’re trying to say here. But I just wanted to add, making a vegetarian/vegan burger is not as simple as grinding up a pound of tofu and sticking it together to fry in a pan.
I’m not saying you have to buy some of the “no meat” brand burgers to make a nice vegan patty but simply substituting some meat with natural unprepared tofu and expecting a great tasting result is IMHO where a lot of people get their aversion to tofu (and often derived to all meat alternatives) from. (Source 15years of vegetarian eating and cooking)
The fact that ready made vegan patties exist and taste great these days is awesome for someone like me who sometimes just wants to make a stupid simple tasty burger.
Tl;dr: Tasty vegan patties aren’t that simple.
I agree that people should be encouraged to cook more (I love doing it when I have time and it hits me). But simply declaring “nobody can cook anymore” and demanding people that might not have the time to prepare a home cooked meal in between their first and second job is not helping.
Of course the convenience of fast food and ready made meals is one of these classic situations where an “invention” that makes our life simpler and more convenient is a good reason why we don’t need all that time we save to ourselves anymore. i.e. you don’t need a lunch break when you can just microwave something up and eat it while continuing your work.
Sorry got kind of a long winded bit here. Hope it makes sense
How about a different angle; enjoy the veggies as they are and forget the emulated meat puck. This isn’t a dig at you, just a general statement of how I always found it weird there are so many vegetarian and vegan food tring to emulate a meat stick or patty. Veggies are wonderful all by themselves why not enjoy them for what they are instead of competing with something it’s not. My 2 cents.
The point is that you spent 2+ decades of life eating meat focused and centered meals, and “just dont eat the meals you spent your whole life enjoying!” isnt actually a coherent or actionable thought for normal people.
If I had to cut flour out of my diet, Im going to look for good tortilla alternatives like corn. Im not going to shrug and never eat tacos, burritos, and other meals Ive known my whole life.
You know how people put spices on meat because they want it to taste more like plants?
sometimes people want to put spices on vegetable protein in order to make it taste more like meat, or fill a similar role in a dish.
People who avoid meat because killing pointlessly is wrong don’t hate the taste. It’s as weird as being like “people on a diet shouldn’t make healthy desserts, they should appreciate low calorie veggie bowls for what they are”
I agree with you for the most part but a pound of ground beef for under 4 bucks?! Where I live it’s rarely less than $8 lb, but definitely a high cost area. Even chicken is usually more than $6 per lb now.
Even a damn tomato or onion is more than a dollar these days and bell peppers are $2 each!
It’s only really fair to compare when you consider the price at OPs store.
Myself, I’m looking at the cost of the burger patties and I know that in my region the price of 1 lb of ground beef relative to this convenient product would be 1/3rd
Yes, but also this isn’t strictly a case of “convenience food makes price go up.” OP is making veggie burgers, not beef burgers, so you really should be comparing “Gardein pre-packaged veggie patties” to “black beans + brown rice + bell pepper + onion + mushroom + eggs + chili powder + cumin + bread crumbs etc” that you’ll mash into your version of a DIY veggie patty. The pre-packaged ones will still probably be more expensive, but at least you’ll be comparing apples to apples.
Yes, it “is” a case of convenience foods make the price go up.
Obviously I was not comparing apples to apples because I chose beef as the comparison which is vastly more expensive than the constituent ingredients of the prepackaged food.
I can make those burgers myself for about 1 to 2 dollars of the veggie/legume/rice ingredients so let’s get real here.
I’m just not sure what we’re all arguing about any more. We all largely agree with one another, but the comments in this thread are all over the place
Are we trying to make an argument against the outrageous price of pre-packaged food (which we all agree have gotten out of hand)? If so, we should be comparing frozen veggie patties against their non-pre-packaged counterparts, not against beef or sandwich bread or whatever else people keep bringing up in the comments.
Are we trying to argue that OP is dumb for picking the most expensive options on the shelf if they’re going to complain about price? Because yeah, everyone already knows that a 70% lean turkey burger on Wonder Bread is going to be cheaper than Kobe beef on an artisanal brioche bun with truffle butter. Veggie burgers have always been expensive because they required years of R&D to make them palatable since they have to survive the freeze & thaw, sit on the shelf for months, and be viable as a boxed product (unlike our home-made versions). What’s worse, they’re still niche enough that they don’t benefit from economies of scale. It’s old news.
Are we trying to argue that inflation is going nuts right now (which we also already agree on)? Because if so, OP picked a dumb collection of ingredients to make that point since I doubt many people have an instinctive feel for how much Gardein used to charge. Show us the price for beef & bargain buns today, then compare that to what a burger used to cost and then we’ll talk.
My point was just that if you’re arguing the first one, then actually pick comparable ingredients for your comparison instead of beef.
I think the other side that doesn’t get explored very often is how convenience food makers have gotten everybody hooked and unable to cook anymore.
Now that that is generally locked-in behavior in our society, the price goes through the roof.
I know people that literally do not know how to make rice because it’s “too hard”.
We should acknowledge that grocery prices have gone up in that price-gouging is rampant. We should also acknowledge that most of people’s money spent at the grocery store is to exchange hundreds of dollars of extra money, for minutes less preparation.
In this picture of this person paid $10 for a pound of “burger”. A pound of ground beef or tofu is a third that price. It takes a minute to slap a couple patties together or to slice off a few slabs, dry them and fry them.
I really feel like we need to enhance this conversation. I think a lot of people don’t want to have it because they want to have the convenience but not the price and it’s just not sustainable anymore. I think people need to look at their own dietary lifestyle, and consider what they’re trading for that convenience.
I understand what you’re trying to say here. But I just wanted to add, making a vegetarian/vegan burger is not as simple as grinding up a pound of tofu and sticking it together to fry in a pan. I’m not saying you have to buy some of the “no meat” brand burgers to make a nice vegan patty but simply substituting some meat with natural unprepared tofu and expecting a great tasting result is IMHO where a lot of people get their aversion to tofu (and often derived to all meat alternatives) from. (Source 15years of vegetarian eating and cooking) The fact that ready made vegan patties exist and taste great these days is awesome for someone like me who sometimes just wants to make a stupid simple tasty burger.
Tl;dr: Tasty vegan patties aren’t that simple.
I agree that people should be encouraged to cook more (I love doing it when I have time and it hits me). But simply declaring “nobody can cook anymore” and demanding people that might not have the time to prepare a home cooked meal in between their first and second job is not helping.
Of course the convenience of fast food and ready made meals is one of these classic situations where an “invention” that makes our life simpler and more convenient is a good reason why we don’t need all that time we save to ourselves anymore. i.e. you don’t need a lunch break when you can just microwave something up and eat it while continuing your work.
Sorry got kind of a long winded bit here. Hope it makes sense
How about a different angle; enjoy the veggies as they are and forget the emulated meat puck. This isn’t a dig at you, just a general statement of how I always found it weird there are so many vegetarian and vegan food tring to emulate a meat stick or patty. Veggies are wonderful all by themselves why not enjoy them for what they are instead of competing with something it’s not. My 2 cents.
Sometimes you want a veggie burger. There’s nothing wrong with that.
The point is that you spent 2+ decades of life eating meat focused and centered meals, and “just dont eat the meals you spent your whole life enjoying!” isnt actually a coherent or actionable thought for normal people.
If I had to cut flour out of my diet, Im going to look for good tortilla alternatives like corn. Im not going to shrug and never eat tacos, burritos, and other meals Ive known my whole life.
You know how people put spices on meat because they want it to taste more like plants?
sometimes people want to put spices on vegetable protein in order to make it taste more like meat, or fill a similar role in a dish.
People who avoid meat because killing pointlessly is wrong don’t hate the taste. It’s as weird as being like “people on a diet shouldn’t make healthy desserts, they should appreciate low calorie veggie bowls for what they are”
I agree with you for the most part but a pound of ground beef for under 4 bucks?! Where I live it’s rarely less than $8 lb, but definitely a high cost area. Even chicken is usually more than $6 per lb now.
Even a damn tomato or onion is more than a dollar these days and bell peppers are $2 each!
Same
It’s only really fair to compare when you consider the price at OPs store.
Myself, I’m looking at the cost of the burger patties and I know that in my region the price of 1 lb of ground beef relative to this convenient product would be 1/3rd
Yes, but also this isn’t strictly a case of “convenience food makes price go up.” OP is making veggie burgers, not beef burgers, so you really should be comparing “Gardein pre-packaged veggie patties” to “black beans + brown rice + bell pepper + onion + mushroom + eggs + chili powder + cumin + bread crumbs etc” that you’ll mash into your version of a DIY veggie patty. The pre-packaged ones will still probably be more expensive, but at least you’ll be comparing apples to apples.
deleted by creator
Yes, it “is” a case of convenience foods make the price go up.
Obviously I was not comparing apples to apples because I chose beef as the comparison which is vastly more expensive than the constituent ingredients of the prepackaged food.
I can make those burgers myself for about 1 to 2 dollars of the veggie/legume/rice ingredients so let’s get real here.
I’m just not sure what we’re all arguing about any more. We all largely agree with one another, but the comments in this thread are all over the place
My point was just that if you’re arguing the first one, then actually pick comparable ingredients for your comparison instead of beef.