Can’t you also name this brand. The majority of the people here know it anyway.
Funnily enough the TSLA stock is 800 billion and the BYD stock is 75 billion.
Funnily enough the TSLA stock is 800 billion and the BYD stock is 75 billion.
That’s because Tesla is extremely overvalued, because Musk is a con man, who promises Tesla will lead AI for fully autonomous driving, and basically promises that when that happens, it’s nearly infinite money. In reality they are currently #4 at best in AI for self driving.
I’m guessing BYD is valued more by criteria similar to VW and Toyota.
PS: Yes I know half of infinite is still infinite. But I hope you all understand what I mean. 😋
Tesla stock is a pyramid scheme.
Teslastock is a pyramid scheme.Tesla stockcapitalism is a pyramid scam.Though when you look at income distribution it looks more like the Burj Khalifa in a desert.
Many yes, but basically those who don’t pay yearly dividends. Which is a ton of them.
Which are the 3 better self driving ai?
Mercedes, Waymo and GM are all ahead for sure, despite having a setback recently in their testing. But there are others that are likely ahead too, like BYD, Nissan, Nvidia and MobilEye.
My guess is that Tesla probably ranks 6th currently, but they for sure is no higher than 4th.PS I don’t know why you got negative feedback? It’s a fair question.
Until this year, most of the analysts weren’t really including FSD in any of their projections. They were projecting Tesla maintaining the really high margins instead of high margins. Some are adding AI in now.
When the really high margins became high margins, things changed pretty rapidly.
Of course retail investors amd what actually happens is different, and it’s hard to deny there must be some impact beyond what analysts are saying, but I don’t think it’s as much FSD as people think it is.
Edit: analysts weren’t even including the energy business either, but thats about to change too.
Tesla stock goes up because it goes up. Thats about it.
The company had high margins and a commanding lead for a desirable auto segment, but at this point its losing ground. The stock goes up because it increased 7x during covid because of lies and hype, so its a Bitcoin/GameStop style meme engine now. It dips and people buy buy buy. It has very little to do with company fundamentals.
They print profits out of thin air by earning carbon credits through ZEV program and selling them to other manufacturers. It was 30% of their profits this year and enables competitors to stave off actually making any EVs, leaving Tesla as the only game in town in the US
Can’t you also name this brand. The majority of the people here know it anyway.
It’s literally the original headline from the article, which is considered good posting ethics. Why would you want posters to editorialize headlines?
How would that majority here know it? I assume most here aren’t Chinese, and these cars are pretty new to most markets outside of China.
I personally had never heard of them, so thanks for mentioning the ticker so I could look it up.
I see a lot of BYDs in the street here in Istanbul. They are everywhere.
Huh, looking it up it looks like they’re in a number of countries. So they’re not quite big enough to make my local news, but big enough to be distributed throughout a number of countries.
What are each of their earnings and prospective earnings?
Market cap isn’t 1:1 with units sold
Teslas sept 2023 q3 operating margin was 11.18% and peaked at 16 before all the cuts. This is while ramping 2 factories.
BYDs latest seems to be 5.33% and peaked around 9.5 in 2018 and has been under 8 since. I don’t know what BYDs factory ramping situation is.
Ford for the past couple years has hovered a little above and below 4. Was worse further back.
Also keep in mind that the (fuck) CCP intentionally heavily subsidized in an effort to dump on all its competitors in different countries.
Cars are regularly sold at half the cost just to kill all competition. You’re going to eventually sell more cars than your competitor.
There’s a bit more to it than that. But yes EVs are subsidized in China.
I worked in a business where we had one product that was useful for automakers but especially useful for EVs. About 8 years ago the EVs in China were mostly cheap shitty BYDs.
Seemingly out of nowhere, the government changed a bunch of rules and regulations for new cars. Within a month design teams were being established at every major automaker in China focusing on EVs. It was a great year for us.
Key EV components, especially the materials to make batteries, started to come down in price.
Then the green plates started turning up. Every city has its own rules for car registration, some places like Shanghai, would auction new number plates each month resulting in a low supply and high demand. It was possible to buy a car cheaper than the number plate. Then if you register an EV you can get a green plate for almost nothing.
About 3 years ago the cities started requiring new taxis and busses to be EV. Places like shenzhen just converted everything to EV. Released licenses for training and testing self driving.
Charge stations started popping up everywhere. There’s no way a shopping mall or new residential development could avoid having at least a large section for charging. My own home, converted an entire floor to charging parking stations in the underground car park.
Finally tesla set up Shanghai giga factory. I have no idea how they managed to make that deal but not long after they started shipping model 3s domestically they slashed the prices down to cheaper than a niceish BYD.
If you go to Shenzhen today about a third of cars are EV and you will see a dozen brands you’ve never heard of before (some are terrible cars, but most are reasonable quality and a handful are bullshit luxury)
As in tradition in China, the government will now let them go into a price war to push the manufacturers to find cheaper ways to make them. Many will go bust or give up.
As in tradition in China, the government will now let them go into a price war to push the manufacturers to find cheaper ways to make them. Many will go bust or give up.
Isn’t that how a market economy is supposed to work, I mean normal textbook style? That’s how capitalism was sold to me in my econ classes.
Sure, but what op described sounds like the equivalent of breaking a pool cue in half and telling the Chinese EV market there’s only room for one manufacturer on the crew.
It’s a massive waste of resources to have everyone race to the bottom like that.
I still don’t get it. Isn’t the point of capitalism and a market economy to have a constant “race to the bottom”, eg. a race to provide a better service for a lower price on the supply side? I mean, interfering with that would be picking winners and losers, wouldn’t it?
Usually governments regulate their markets to prevent humans from going full human and burning everything as a sacrifice to the gods of greed. This is why we have agencies that regulate food safety, engineering standards, nuclear materials and chemical disposal.
The phrase “regulations are written in blood” reminds us that a race to the bottom will result in massive problems, and that regulation is an excellent idea.
Common sense regulations like safety and such make sense, but isn’t that just part of the “race to the bottom”? I mean, if a regulation is well-written, it either affects all participants equally, or affects larger market participants more to enforce a balanced market with many competitors and healthy competition.
I could see it might be something other than described, or I might not be getting some implication here, but what is described here sounds like a “race to the bottom” with regard to profit margins, and that is how a market economy should work, at least according to my very basic econ studies.
The same exact product offering should have decreasing profit margins due to competition, which companies should compensate for with innovation, but what happens very often is that market distortions are introduced by either the government or big market players to heighten profit margins artificially.
I’m reading this sentence as “profits go down drastically as competition sets in”. That doesn’t preclude regulation.
Thanks for entertaining my questions, I am really trying to understand the point here.
Makes you wonder where the US could have been by now if they supported the transition sooner.
That’s fantastic that the CCP is creating the infrastructure to switch over to EV. It STILL doesn’t change the fact that they are intentionally dumping on the competition.
Also requiring the public to switch to EVs non organically has repercussions as well. https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2023-china-ev-graveyards/
The company you work for saw subsidized money for more e-waste and what the (fuck)CCP did actually increase greenhouse gases.
Other notable CCP fuckups are…
1 child policies Covid lockdowns And my personal favorite: The Four Pest Campaign (which led to one of the biggest famine) https://youtu.be/ojOmUWLDG18?si=1OXqD3bXpWVI5RI2
Governments subsidising technologies of the future to accelerate R&D! Oh, the horror!
Honestly? Good.
Maybe this will actually push EVs to be the most common vehicle type.
Pay wall, but AFAIK they aren’t past Tesla yet, all these comparisons include PHEV.
That said, it’s believed they may pass Tesla in 2024 for pure EVs
PHEV?
Plug in hybrids electric vehicle.
Gas engine + battery
Ya a lot can happen in 10 years.
In the 10 years since, Musk has changed his tune from one of derision to one of respect, saying in May: “That was many years ago. Their cars are highly competitive these days.”
This is something to keep in mind because he has kept the same car designs for a decade. BYD has continually updated their hardware and designs. Musk isn’t leading Tesla; he’s at the helm while it coasts along, losing the momentum needed to move into the future.
I want to see battery ranges of 400-450 miles for $25-30,000 before I’ll consider it. I have a PHEV and the range is inflated. It gets 2/3rds of what it claims. To get what it claims, I’d need to do 20 miles an hour everywhere. That’s obviously not happening. Tesla also has range issues and gets much less than claimed… to the point where they got in trouble for it.
@boem
I’m trying really hard to care about that.
But I think I’ll just just say: 中华人民共和国万岁 !Fuck China
Look, another racist!
Lol, that’s plenty to not like about China besides color of skin.
@Kbobabob The economy that drives the world? Later this century the US will be driving Geely cars and shooting guns made of Bao Shan steel. Then, with the world economy in it’s pocket , the PLA will start exporting Communism to those countries defaulting in their debt. Chinese ‘capitalism’ is a means to an end, as those getting rich on it will find out.
Optimistic outlook for a country that’d about to hit a massive population collapse and fall out of their current position in the world as early as the 2050s
How many of these just stand in China’s EV graveyards?
Most popular does not equate to better.
Countless ev cars were made and dumped in massive Chinese car burials just to achieve certain sales records and government mandated KPI
These were carshare cars abandoned after the bubble burst. Also, that’s Geely, a different company that also sponsors a popular taxi service which almost exclusively uses Geely EVs to transport passengers.
They’re on sale here in NZ and seem pretty popular.
I wouldn’t say that they’re popular yet, but I have seen a couple on São Paulo streets
Indeed, Tesla’s have such a great reputation…
deleted by creator
