I don’t see the point in doing men’s vs women’s clothing sizes. Surely there’s a big enough variance in size and shape between individuals that it would be more useful to size based off of measurements of body shape?
Take shoes for example. Why is a uk men’s size 10 so wildly different from a UK women’s size 10?
All it seems to achieve is making shopping for clothes difficult for anyone that doesn’t fit into the expected body shape for their gender and make it hard to find well fitting clothes outside of specialist shops.
You must be man. 😀
Me too, but I also sew, so: Different types of clothing fit women differently based on size. And I don’t mean body shape fit just being slightly different. A “small shirt” can have a million different lengths which could reveal midriff based on bust or Shoulder size. This is impacted by curves but is a total dofferent measurement. And this can happen with any gender, but statistically more so for women.
And wait until you realize that people are sized different in different countries other than America.
The best solution would be to remove sizes altogether and create a standardized measurements sheet that is required to be included on clothing sites or tags. Or at least an international standard. It’s done in engineering, why not in textiles?
Generally, women are going to have boobs and wider hips and men generally have bigger feet. Obviously there’s a massive spectrum of human body shapes, but this is the main differentiation.
If I wear my (male) partner’s t-shirts, they’re just straight with no space for boobs and they don’t come in at the waist. Same with trousers, there’s a massive pouch in the crotch, too narrow on my hips and too loose at the waist. People like to wear things that best fit their bodies.
Stuff like ski boots, too. Men and women apparently have muscle groups placed in slightly different areas, so the boots are sculpted differently to account for that.
Style/cut is different than the measurements though.
It isn’t about style. Women’s sizes (e.g. 8, 10, 12) originally came from codes based on the variations between hip, waist and bust measurements.
It’s a shortcut for measurements.
It’s easier to shop “Men’s L” or 32x32 pants than remember a lot of measurements.
I think it’s different if you want your clothes to fit a specific way, but for my shopping I want to minimize the time spent shopping and get “good enough”. That’s how we end up in minimal measurements.
I think ideally we’d have both sets: the minimal measurement and the maximalist ones for the same garment.
Shapes need to be different, as others have already said. So men’s and women’s clothes do need different construction. But sizes could be just measurements. Absolutely. Yes.
Shoes, no. They should all be length in cm and then a narrow, medium, wide, xwide.
This really depends on the clothes. Shoes should absolutely have a single sizing system and I would love for all pants to use waist/leg measurements like jeans do. But many other garments are completely reasonable to separate based on gender (or sex, rather), primarily tops due to the fact of boobs existing and even pants like I mentioned are able to have tighter crotches on a women’s size.
In many parts of the world, shoe sizes are unified (cm or mm). They still use the labels for men and women for style but, so far as I know, they’re otherwise the same (unless the widths differ, but those are also standardized in many places so you might get like a 25.5e for 25.5cm width e)
My man-boobs would like a word.
Usually you want to hide your man boobs, women’s clothing usually aims for the opposite.
Shoes are pretty easy to guesstimate for US sizes if you have average feet (width being the biggest reason this fails). Men size is basically women size plus 1.5. This doesn’t work if you have a large foot size though, since women’s dont go up to the same max as men’s
Clothes are 100% a pain. Especially online shopping
I just wish there wasn’t so much guesstimating required. I stopped growing a while back and yet I’ve fit an 11, 11.5, and 11W, depending on the shoe. I wish it was a bit more standardised based on length and width. I’ve never shopped online for shoes because I know they probably won’t fit right!
Take shoes for example. Why is a uk men’s size 10 so wildly different from a UK women’s size 10?
EU shoe sizes aren’t different based off gender; women just tend to have size 37 when men tend to have size 42.
Have you seen a woman? Their bodies are different, clothes are cut differently. What the hell man. Im surprised this is a serious post. :)
How are you going to go into a shop and get clothes for your “body shape” in the scenario that there are no male or female clothes?
You can do this if you custom order a suite from a tailor but not when you shop for sweaters in the shop…
There are a million things that only women wear also.
I mean, a men’s size 10 is wildly different to some other brands size 10
Like others already mentioned, they don’t just differ in size, but in shape as well. What I would prefer is different varieties for each size per sex. For example, I am an Asian medium. So when buying shirts in the US, I’m in that weird spot where a US medium is too wide on the shoulders and the sleeves too big, but the torso is just right. On the other hand, a US small fits just right on the shoulder width and sleeves, but the torso is too tight. It would be great if there are variations based on build as well like pants (i.e. slim, standard, wide, etc.).
That’s why I like Levis pants. Lots of different fit options
Sounds like I am the opposite of you, as I have broad shoulders and long ass gorilla arms and torso so I end up needing to hunt down the long/tall version of XL sized clothes for most brands.
I would love something for regular clothes that was more like dress clothes with multiple measurements to work with like sleeve length, shoulder, neck, etc. to more easily find what brands design for my body type. Hurley for example is an excellent fit the vast majority of the time for me, and I’m not a cut sports guy.
Tell me about it. It’s an exercise in frustration to find good fitting clothes as a trans woman because most clothes don’t come with a sizing table and if they do they skip the most important measurement for me: shoulders.
Or it can be a real punch in the gut when the description includes what size the model in the photos is wearing. For example the model is the same size as me (1.74m) and wears a size S. And I’m like great I will take that in L or XL…
Marketing
To charge women more? The pink tax is real
It depends on how the standard was made, with the decisions generally made to fit specific reasons and no overarching standard.
There are also clothes that use more than one number. A lot of mens pants use two numbers; the same with formal mens shirts.
No gꝏd reason for it , don’t listen to the biœssentialists in this thread that say otherwise
Degender (body types|clothing) NOW ‼
EDIT : wording
Most ridiculous thing ive ever heard.
Bravest comment
Because men and women have different body shapes. A small man and woman may need the same size but certainly not the same cut.
E: nvm i skipped over you talking about body shapes. Yes I’d agree that there should be more options, but even an overweight man will likely need and want a different cut than a woman of similar proportions. So the distinction between genders still makes sense, just that each needs to accommodate more body types.
Nowadays all women’s clothes are straight up and down, the only difference is pink. It’s a nightmare for women who are shaped like women.
The fuck is a “woman-shaped woman”?
Are women who fit into the clothes you describe not women?
Did I end up on Ravelry?
Yup. I agree. Men’s pants more often accomodate my wide ass better than women’s clothing. I don’t know how. It shouldn’t be possible. Even the swimming trunks fit better… I found out ball hammocks are a thing. Not out of curiosity, but out of desperation! And sometimes, I find pants that fit my ass, but the legs are too short!
Another thing is that women’s clothing is meant to be form shaping. So if you are less curvy, the clothes got you covered. If you are too curvy, the clothes will crawl and migrate down the hills.
It’s hard to find practical clothing. Such as a swimming top that will stay the fuck on if you jump off a cliff. Or a bottim that has space for more than 1 asscheek. Let alone to avoid the camel toe.
Not to mention flimsy fabric with shitty patterns added. Found a comfy nice shoe? Well here is 2cm^2 of snakeskin pattern for no reason. How about a nice shirt? Got some stupid white woman quote on it though. Or an animal with massive eyes to make your boobs look bigger… ffs. Or the bad design? Nice hoodie? Well it’s short enough to show the belly button. Pockets? Some are fake. This nice looking top has 3 straps and you need to fold it inwards to make it stay in shape! Oh found a nice, 100% thick wool jacket? Oh it’s men sized. Arms are too long and a bit to tight around the bottom. Well let’s see- oh the women’s section doesn’t even have the option. Only a thin fleece hoodie in bright pastell colours.
God I swear to you, I hate women’s clothing so fucking much.
“Maybe I should just go swimming at a nude beach… that way I won’t have to search or worry anymore.”
Don’t forget the snakeskin is usually a mixture of pastels.
Ehh I’ve had to use women cuts shirt ss undershirts sometimes, even if the size was right they always felt tight across the back and shoulders
Yes and no, it depends on the brand mostly, but at least here in México it’s notorious because brands tend to import asian sizes for some reason (or so some clerks say) and you see lots of size 0 or 1, but bigger sizes or clothes that actually fit women who aren’t flat/extremely skinny are sold out first (and fast).
Men’s pants are also poorly fitted if you have a butt, they seem designed to be for flat guys only.
That’s just not… true… Maybe the ones you choose to buy 🤣
Have a look at German clothing sites for fun. There is no “choice”.
… I’m from Germany and talking from a German perspective. I can ask some of my female friends where they get their clothes if you want?
Sure. But Popken, C&A, Bella Green, Bonprix, P&C (both iterations), Cecil, Braxx, etc. do not believe in boobs or hips. I found a French company that does, but they’re horrifyingly expensive.
Tradition plays a huge part in it.
Why do so many women’s dresses zip up the back? Because servants used to be a thing. Same reason women’s shirts button differently than men’s; someone else was supposed to be dressing the lady.
Even fifty years ago in New York a man could be arrested for wearing something the police considered “women’s clothes.” and NYC was considered a loose town with easy morals
The zipper in th3 back also helps if you have a big chest and don’t want it bifurcated by a zipper.
And you can’t put that same zipper (if it goes all the way up the back) on the side… if you have wide hips.
So at least that still has reason to exist.
Source: my own body and never wearing a front-faced zipper after seeing why we don’t do that.
