All sorts of comments here are missing the real problem: businesses had a chance to do online meetings. But they dont. So they send people everywhere, staying in hotels, driving up the costs, charging them for parking because they can.
The fallout is everyone pays more. It isn’t just people on vacation paying for this.
Yep, my job just got done with another round of layoffs for “cost cutting”. But you better believe we still have those twice yearly off sites where they fly a few hundred people all over the globe over the course of a year to “get face time”.
Expert medical researchers, they need face time to do what exactly? I call bullshit. Of course they want face time. Per diem, a hotel stay, frequent flyer miles, all the perks.
BULLSHIT they cant do their work without. And if they can’t they really do not know how to do their job.
And so much of it is basically impossible to do with scheduled calls. People have tried making video call software to replicate in-person interaction dynamics, but none of them helped for the labs I worked in.
When you’re discussing in person, conversations naturally split up into separate conversations each with their own interested participants.
If you’re no longer interested in something, you can temporarily tune out and listen in on a different nearby conversation to gauge whether you want to move to a different group.
Video call softwares have introduced breakout rooms, but you need to leave a room to enter another. You can’t just quickly scan the room with your ears and pick out another topic you want to talk about. You also can’t do this scan without signaling to current participants that you might not want to talk to them.
There was another that created a virtual 2D room where you can walk around and get proximity chat, but things just get too noisy because you don’t get directional audio.
Calls require scheduling and lack flexibility. Compared to an in person conference where the plan is basically just being around other researchers and interacting with them for the whole day. If it were remote, you would have to book calls to fill up your day and you can’t just decide to drop something because you’re tired and need some time to recover. If you schedule a call, you’re expected to be at the call.
Scheduled calls come with much higher expectations. You don’t generally go into a call to exchange three minutes of small talk and hang up. You’re expected to know ahead of time that this is someone you want to talk to and what you want to talk about with this person. In person meetings let you go through this small talk process with multiple people to find the ones who share your research interests.
Body language communicates a lot too, especially in this search process. Get enough experience with this and you have a much higher chance of picking out people who are of a compatible form of neuro-spicy.
Considering that so many researchers are neurodivergent in some way, planning specific activities helps a lot as social lubricant. Going out for drinks as an evening activity is fairly standard at all conferences I’ve attended. There’s one guy who always organizes morning runs. Sometimes, we chat over board games. Etc.
So they are reading each others work, reviewing it and talking about it.
And this has to be in person how? And how much more work would be done if it was asynchronous?
You know how many scientists in various fields work remotely?
There are fields where work has to take place where you are, for example you can’t do archaeology from afar. But you can meet with archaeologists all over the world to discuss findings. And a huge portion of that work is done by reading the papers. So most of the collaboration is clarification and questioning anyways.
just like they do their studies involve 100s and 1000s of people.
Just to clarify are you saying they discuss things with 100s and 1000’s of people? or are you just mentioning that the studies involve hundreds or thousands of people?
If they are meeting in the 100’s or 1000’s, then YES they are wasting time and socializing.
Oooh, an appeal to authority! You have experts on your side!? How can the poor internet people even hope to compete with such intellectual prowess?? You don’t even need to state why those experts believe that to convince everyone else!
it’s so funny how many lemmy experts know nothing about how the real world works.
i suppose you think we should just get rid of in person learning too right? just stick kids in front of computer screens at home! it will totalyl work so well!
oh wait… we did that, and it did tons of damage to those kids…
All sorts of comments here are missing the real problem: businesses had a chance to do online meetings. But they dont. So they send people everywhere, staying in hotels, driving up the costs, charging them for parking because they can.
The fallout is everyone pays more. It isn’t just people on vacation paying for this.
Yep, my job just got done with another round of layoffs for “cost cutting”. But you better believe we still have those twice yearly off sites where they fly a few hundred people all over the globe over the course of a year to “get face time”.
Only fans doesn’t substitute for sex work.
If you dont believe me, ask your mom.
Becauae she’s a lovely woman who wouldnt lie to her favorite, beloved son.
Unless she getting paid, then she pulling them dentures out and sucking ass like a snake bit it.
Just kidding!
…That’s really more your dads thing…
online meetings suck. especially if they are larger than 6-12 people.
face to face meetings are superior to every way. they provide opportunity for networking and are more productive.
there is a reason we are going back to in-person events. they are simple superior in terms of outcomes and opportunities.
No they are not. If they are for you, you are doing them wrong. They are huge time wasters, and energy wasters.
Face to Face with family? Fine. With work? A jerk off session to spend money on travel. So much wasted time.
The worst offender though? Hybrid. They suck the most of all.
Right, let me go tell the network of expert medical researchers I work with how ‘stupid and dumb’ they are for wanting face to face meetings.
those ignorant fools, clearly YOU, some random bozo on the internet, know better than they do how best to collaborate on their work.
Expert medical researchers, they need face time to do what exactly? I call bullshit. Of course they want face time. Per diem, a hotel stay, frequent flyer miles, all the perks.
BULLSHIT they cant do their work without. And if they can’t they really do not know how to do their job.
but they really want to be able to socalize…
socializing is literally how reserach and any science is done.
nobody is isolated in a room when they do research. they do it with other people.
And so much of it is basically impossible to do with scheduled calls. People have tried making video call software to replicate in-person interaction dynamics, but none of them helped for the labs I worked in.
to share their results and collaborate and figure out new possibilities for research by reviewing each other’s work and talking about it.
So they are reading each others work, reviewing it and talking about it.
And this has to be in person how? And how much more work would be done if it was asynchronous?
You know how many scientists in various fields work remotely?
There are fields where work has to take place where you are, for example you can’t do archaeology from afar. But you can meet with archaeologists all over the world to discuss findings. And a huge portion of that work is done by reading the papers. So most of the collaboration is clarification and questioning anyways.
No. they discuss it. in a group. person to person. with other researchers from across the country and practitioners, and lawyers, and drug makers.
just like they do their studies involve 100s and 1000s of people.
Just to clarify are you saying they discuss things with 100s and 1000’s of people? or are you just mentioning that the studies involve hundreds or thousands of people?
If they are meeting in the 100’s or 1000’s, then YES they are wasting time and socializing.
you call bullshit because you don’t do collaborative work that is spread out across multiple sites.
nor do you understand how much is lost by zooming and how limited it’s functionality and productivity is.
Yeah. I do.
collaborative work spread across multiple sites is exactly why online meetings are so much more effective in my industry
Lol this is the stupidest shit I’ve heard online in awhile. When did LinkedIn become part of the fediverse?
Oooh, an appeal to authority! You have experts on your side!? How can the poor internet people even hope to compete with such intellectual prowess?? You don’t even need to state why those experts believe that to convince everyone else!
it’s so funny how many lemmy experts know nothing about how the real world works.
i suppose you think we should just get rid of in person learning too right? just stick kids in front of computer screens at home! it will totalyl work so well!
oh wait… we did that, and it did tons of damage to those kids…
You’re right, those poor expert medical researchers won’t learn how to socialize without in person conferences giving them exposure to other people!
What other plans do I have that will backfire in the most horrible ways??
no, you tell them that
I’m an expert in my field. I say online meetings are better
what a bold statement
face to face meeting absolutely fucking suck for technical presentations where multiple people are sharing designs and looking at spec sheets etc.