• GrymEdm@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    Well now I’m confused, because there’s a post from today about how Israel is not sending a delegation to Egypt for ceasefire/hostage talks according to CNN. Here’s the direct link to the article, which states:

    • “Israel is not sending a delegation to Cairo for talks on a deal for a ceasefire and release of hostages from Gaza, an Israeli official told CNN Sunday.”
    • “Another diplomatic source played down the prospects of an imminent deal, saying progress was slow and it was unlikely there would be a breakthrough within the next 48 hours.”
    • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      The article immediately clarified Israel hasn’t agreed to anything.

      Biden keeps saying a ceasefire is about to happen, despite no signs it will

      So his administration keeps releasing these unsourced reasons that it total is happening, despite no signs it is.

    • BarbecueCowboy@kbin.social
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      10 months ago

      The official said the reason was that Hamas had not responded to two Israeli demands: a list of hostages specifying which are alive and which are dead; and confirmation of the ratio of Palestinian prisoners to be released from Israeli prisons in exchange for hostages.

      This is in theory what we’re waiting on. That sounds reasonable at first glance, but we do have to remember that we are only hearing from one side.

  • goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org
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    10 months ago

    He said Israel had “basically” accepted the deal, but did not specify whether it still had reservations or what those were.

    So its still just lip service?

    • Rapidcreek@lemmy.worldOP
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      10 months ago

      Well sort of. I think what means is that they got all the nods, but no signature on the paper.

    • mosiacmango@lemm.ee
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      10 months ago

      Biden and Hamas leaders said the aid convoy deaths could complicate negotiations for a ceasefire and hostage release deal. But Egyptian security sources said the incident had pushed both sides to intensify their efforts, in order to preserve progress made so far, Reuters reported.

      Seems like the IDF firing into the crowds of starving refugees, causing crowd crush and killing over a 100 people and wounding 800+ was a really bad look, so Israel is onboard instead of threatening a Rafah ground assault.

      • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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        10 months ago

        Yes because “We’ll let you do your thing for 6 weeks (and keep murdering and kidnapping your displaced homeless people) then continue genociding you” isn’t a very attractive offer.

  • underisk@lemmy.ml
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    10 months ago

    Hamas has repeatedly rejected any kind of temporary ceasefire. I can’t see why this would be any different.

    Was Hamas even involved in the drafting of this deal or did the US and Israel just throw this together to paint Hamas as unreasonable when they reject it again? None of the articles I’ve read have made any effort to clarify who drew this up beyond vaguely gesturing at Israel, US, and Egypt.

    • Wrench@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. I don’t know what the terms of this one are, but past cease fires have basically required Hamas to surrender. Giving up their only leverage, hostages, and allowing IDF to strictly control everyone and everything going in and out of Gaza, free to shut off power and water as they feel, and block aid.

      • underisk@lemmy.ml
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        10 months ago

        Not to mention Israel doesn’t exactly have a stellar record when it comes to respecting ceasefires.

      • DarkGamer@kbin.social
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        10 months ago

        As you say, they have very little leverage. What they can offer is returning the hostages and a guarantee of safety for Israel and in exchange, they can get peace and relative freedom. At this point they should probably negotiate for whatever they can get, because the alternative is complete destruction. Belligerence hasn’t worked out well for them, perhaps they should try something else.

        I wouldn’t expect any trust and goodwill considering their stated goal is to genocide Jews and destroy Israel.

        • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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          10 months ago

          As you say, they have very little leverage. What they can offer is returning the hostages and a guarantee of safety for Israel and in exchange, they can get peace and relative freedom.

          The only peace Gaza is getting out of an Israeli occupation is a worse version of the West Bank.

    • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      As best as I can find this is basically a deal that gives Israel it’s biggest ask in exchange for maybe not bombing during Ramadan. So yeah something they cooked up to make Hamas look unreasonable.

      • underisk@lemmy.ml
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        10 months ago

        Yeah, which is why this shit is still going on. Hamas would be extremely naive to think a temporary ceasefire is anything more than a promise to start bombing again later after they’ve refreshed their troops and stockpiled more weapons.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Hamas has repeatedly rejected any kind of temporary ceasefire.

      Palestinian officials have advocated for a permanent ceasefire, with the expectation that any concessions they extract from the Israelis will be forfeit as soon as a temporary ceasefire closes.

      Was Hamas even involved in the drafting of this deal

      Right now, the primary advocates on behalf of the Palestinians are Qatari and Egyptian officials with sympathies toward their Arab neighbors. Any actual members of Hamas have been playing cat-and-mouse with Israeli assassins, which has in turn made the Israeli demands for a proper accounting of hostages very difficult.

      After all, if you clearly state how many hostages survived the carpet-bombing of Northern Gaza, the Israelis can use that figure to coordinate their strikes in and around the southern end.

      • underisk@lemmy.ml
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        10 months ago

        Egypt is essentially preparing a concentration camp in Sinai to house refugees from a seemingly inevitable Rafah campaign. I have some doubts about how well they’re advocating for Palestine’s interests.

        • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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          10 months ago

          The interests of Palestinians and the interests of Hamas aren’t the same thing. Egypt is doing the right thing by building refugee camps. But they also don’t want Hamas to be able to move freely in their country and link up with elements of the Muslim Brotherhood.

          Hamas is a terrorist organization, it’s a tricky balance between helping the Palestinian people without giving the Hamas terrorists among them free movement in Egypt.

          A lot of Hamas will die. The question is, how many Palestinian civilians do you want to die along with them?

          • underisk@lemmy.ml
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            10 months ago

            Their interests seem pretty aligned on the issue of stopping the genocide. I don’t know what other interests you think they have that conflict with the well being of Palestinians but I doubt they’re even in the same ballpark as that extremely pressing, immediate issue.

            Have you learned nothing from the “war on terror”? You can’t kill a distributed, loosely connected, highly entrenched resistance by bombing it away. If America couldn’t manage it in Iraq, what makes you think America Jr. is gonna pull it off? Shoving Palestinians off their land is the goal here, not killing Hamas.

            Also fuck you for calling Egypt enclosing an undeveloped patch of desert with a wall a “refugee camp”. Clown.

            • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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              10 months ago

              Do you see the distinction between the US fighting a war on the other side of the world and Israel fighting against terrorists within home made rocket range?

              The US had the option to pull out. Israel does not have the same options. Their survival is on the line.

              People egging on the Palestinians to do more violence are just getting Palestinians killed. These backwards medieval notions that it’s like the crusades and Israel will just go away is just getting people killed and accomplishing nothing else. It’s this “River to the Sea” bullshit that’s causing women and children to get killed in the crossfire between psychopaths and a modern military. As it goes on Palestinians get less and less. But the asshole oil-rich Arabs that fund them and the psychos in Iran that arm them don’t give a shit. Palestinians are just being used as cannon fodder to make wealthy Arabs not feel completely humiliated over all the wars they lost against Israel.

  • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    Subtitle:

    White House officials claim provisional agreement is on the table as scale of starvation crisis revealed

    So it’s a US official anonymously saying that an offer is on the table…

    Like every other post OP has made on the subject, the headline isn’t factual and immediately clarified in the article.

    If Israel was going to agree to it, they’d sign it

    But they won’t, so they don’t.

          • boyi@lemmy.sdf.org
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            10 months ago

            because I think you have bad intentions. Like you will post this to show that Israel are ready for ceasefire but Hamas is the the one that doesn’t want to compromise. I might be wrong. Anyway, that’s why I asked you.

  • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
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    10 months ago

    For those repeatedly reporting this:

    “Talks took place in Doha, the Qatari capital, on Saturday and were expected to move to Cairo on Sunday as the scale of looming starvation pushed the US to start air-dropping food into the enclave.”

    The Israeli agreement apparently happened in Doha, but won’t be official until they sign the agreement in Cairo… where they may not actually show up.

    It’s passed Sunday into Monday, so we’ll see where it goes, but I’m frankly not optimistic.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Its curious to see how the media narrative has turned in the wake of some of these primary votes. Biden’s gone from “Israel can do no wrong” to “We’re doing everything we can (short of denying them more weapons and diplomatic cover at the UN) to stop these atrocities”.

      I have to wonder what happens as we close in on the general election and Trump goes all in on being pro-Palestinian genocide. Do the Democrats rediscover their love of human rights and rules based international order? Or do they all double back and try to out-compete the Republicans on the “We Love Israel” front?

      • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
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        10 months ago

        Generally, it’s pro-Israel all the way down because of donations. That’s really all they care about.

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          It goes a bit beyond that, even. Israel is pivotal to the control of the Suez canal and a point of military access into the Persian Gulf for Western forces. They’re the guard dog of the Middle East, a central trading hub between the Mediterranean and the Indian Ocean, and an agricultural hub in a region notorious for drought. There are lots of reasons to support Zionism that go beyond just getting a bundler with an AIPAC affiliation channeling donor cash in your direction.

          To quote old Smoke’n Joe Biden, “If Israel did not exist, we would have to invent it.”

    • blahsay@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Generally stopping shooting is a great step towards peace. I guess you’re sad the Palestinians will get fed?

      • snooggums@midwest.social
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        10 months ago

        I’m talking about a ceasefire, which is not directly tied to food since they have already delivered some food without a ceasefire.

        • AA5B@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          Baby steps. Let’s try to stop killing each other, then we can figure out how to remain stopped and keep from starting again

          • snooggums@midwest.social
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            10 months ago

            Previous ceasefire for set times went right back to genocide, so forgive me if I have doubts about a longer one having better results.

            • AA5B@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              Did previous ceasefire attempts get any agreement? Or actually happen?

              One difference is previous attempts were negotiated by Qatar, which has some influence with Hamas, while this was proposed by the US which has some influence with Israel. There’s also building global pressure to end the atrocities.

              Especially since your phrasing appears to blame Israel, surely influence with Israel must give some hope?

              More importantly, all you can do is keep trying until it sticks. I really think that’s a pattern regardless of the country or the violence: first attempt at a ceasefire rarely works but if you keep trying, it will eventually.

              • snooggums@midwest.social
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                10 months ago

                There was a short one earlier on for a shotage exchange. Since then Israel leaned even harder into ‘eradicating Hamas’ while slaughtering women and children as 3/4 of deaths, forced Palestinians into smaller ‘safe zones’, and other steps in genocide.

                That is why there is reluctance to give up the hostages for a temporary ceasefire.

        • mwguy@infosec.pub
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          10 months ago

          And what terms do you propose that would be observed by Hamas?

            • DarkGamer@kbin.social
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              10 months ago

              The reason there’s a massive security apparatus around Palestine is not to oppress Palestinians or impose racial hierarchy, it is because they have been trying to murder Jews for the last 70+ years.

              The violence against Israel is the reason for this. Hamas is a cause of the violence. They create the very situation they say they want to end.

              If they want the walls to come down and the blockade to end, they need to show a commitment to peace, rather than a commitment to genocide.

              • Emily (she/her)@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                10 months ago

                The violence against Palestinians is the reason for this. Zionism/Israel is a cause of the violence. They create the very situation they say they want to end.

                If they want the walls to come down and the blockade to end, they need to show a commitment to peace, rather than a commitment to genocide.

              • po-lina-ergi@kbin.social
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                10 months ago

                Super weird that when you commit a genocide against a people and then colonise their land they aren’t thrilled about it.

          • snooggums@midwest.social
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            10 months ago

            I can confidently say that if Israel stops supporting settlers taking Palestinian homes, killing Palestinians indiscriminately, and no longer enforce apartheid Hamas would observe an end to violent hostilities.

            It isn’t like Hamas can offer more than not being the instigator of violence, and if your calender goes back further than October you will see that Hamas arose to power in response to Israeli violence.

            • BarbecueCowboy@kbin.social
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              10 months ago

              It’s a nice thought and I’d hope the majority of the Palestinian people might… settle for that, but Hamas itself is founded on principles that are fairly extreme. Their charter is real rough, a paragraph early on about murdering all Jews everywhere is just the start.

              Hamas has defined their government based on perpetual war and other problematic conditions. It’s difficult to envision a lasting peace while they’re still around.

              • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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                10 months ago

                They stated they’d accept a two-state solution in 2017, but honestly what they’d accept doesn’t matter. They’d have two options: Adapt or go the way of the IRA.

            • mwguy@infosec.pub
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              10 months ago

              I can confidently say that if Israel stops supporting settlers taking Palestinian homes, killing Palestinians indiscriminately, and no longer enforce apartheid Hamas would observe an end to violent hostilities.

              Hamas disagrees with you.

            • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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              10 months ago

              Oh so you’re the leader of Hamas, I suppose?

              My calendar goes back further than October https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel

              I see thousands upon thousands of rockets launched by Hamas at civilians in Israel.

              Hamas are a group of authoritarian goons that are paid by bitter oil-rich Arab billionaires to kill as many Jews as they can. If they stopped the money would dry up and some other group of authoritarian goons with Iranian made weapons would take their place. Their existence is dependent on hatred towards Israel, without that they wouldn’t exist.

              They aren’t the rag tag group of freedom fighters your social media feed has led you to believe. They’re genocidal psychopaths that would slit your throat in your sleep if it would benefit them.

      • Kaboom@reddthat.com
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        10 months ago

        Being real, that depends on if Hamas and Israel want it. Seeing as Hamas literally has Israel’s destruction in their charter, any ceasefire is only temporary

  • _number8_@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    that’s all aaron bushnell right there. most noble american act of the 20th century

    • DarkGamer@kbin.social
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      10 months ago

      You think the reason for this is the guy who immolated himself? Why? He’s not even mentioned in this article.

      • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        Enforcing an Apartheid State is a international crime against humanity too, do you support Apartheid?

        Amnesty International Report

        Human Rights Watch Report

        B’TSelem Report with quick Explainer

        Year before Oct 7 - Jewish Voice for Peace

        Application of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide in the Gaza Strip (South Africa v. Israel) and Summery by the International Court of Justice

        AP News, Time, Reuters, Vox on Crime of Genocide

        • Synnr@sopuli.xyz
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          10 months ago

          Mama always said, two wrong ain’t make a right. My father said that complex geopolitical games are not won with bias, but with detached foresight.

            • Synnr@sopuli.xyz
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              10 months ago

              It’s impossible to avoid bias completely. It’s very much possible to recognize your bias and train yourself to have emotional detachment from a given subject. Ask a Buddhist monk, or a seasoned intelligence analyst.

              Philosophical ramble below, you can stop reading here if you’re not in the mood.

              Most people unfortunately never get to the stage of realizing they can detach themselves from emotional bias, so they read and believe whatever they have already read and believe and want to be true.

              Side note: it’s much easier when you’re on the spectrum, or learned as a child to shut your emotions off (I’m not sure this can be learned in adulthood). It seems like many victims of childhood abuse take it in the other direction - emotional overreaction.

              • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
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                10 months ago

                Over the last five months we’ve witnessed more than 30,600 Palestinians killed, more than 12,300 children and 6,300 women killed by Israel. With more than 70,000 injured. 99 Journalists killed too.

                We’ve seen over 360,000 homes destroyed. Nearly 400 schools, 267 Places of Worship, over 130 water wells bombed and destroyed. 23 out of 35 Hospitals don’t function anymore since they’ve gotten shelled. With the other 12 only partially functioning. Over 85% of everyone in Gaza has been displaced.

                Millions are at extreme risk of starvation and disease brought by a deliberate famine and water crisis.

                What are we talking about here?

                • Synnr@sopuli.xyz
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                  10 months ago

                  What are we talking about here?

                  Emotional detachment of things one has no personal involvement in, in order to see the situation as clearly as possible. If you are living in Gaza or have family or a good friend there then yes it’s much harder and maybe nearly impossible. I can also understand the need for emotional attachment to feel purpose by campaigning against something, but again, attachment is the enemy of objectivity.

        • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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          10 months ago

          So you want Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza to be considered Israeli citizens?

          There’s a term for making people from an occupied territory into citizens of the country that’s doing the occupation. The term is annexation.

          So do you want Israel to annex the West Bank and Gaza?

          The “Apartheid State” thing is just a slogan for children that don’t understand how anything works in the world.

          • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            Immediately, I would prefer an actual permanent ceasefire and an end to the decade long permanent occupation. I would prefer the apartheid state to be dismantled and a new state with equal rights for both Israelis and Palestinians to take its place. For the millions of Palestinians refugees to have the Right of Return.

            You mean the annexation of at least 60% of the West Bank since 1967 with Palestinians subject to Military Law, weaponized Setter Violence, denied civil rights, denied rights to movement, water, and property?

            Due to the de facto annexation of the West Bank, a Two-State Solution is no longer a practical solution. The West Bank has been divided into bantustans and require an expulsion of hundreds of thousands of settlers. It’s been a one-state reality because of the Settlements built by Israel on the West Bank. Which is why a single Binational State that would ensure equal rights for all Palestinians and Israelis is the most viable resolution.

            You’re denying the investigative journalists by multiple major Human Rights Organizations, including B’TSelem (a Jewish Israeli Human Rights Org operating within Israel), detailing exactly how Israel is guilty of the Crime of Apartheid by the definitions laid out by the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (ICERD), the International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid (Apartheid Convention) and the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (Rome Statute). You could read the first few pages of any of those reports I linked, calling them childish is laughable.

            Palestinians denied civil rights including Military Court

            Palestinian Prisoners in Israel including Child abuse

            Settler Violence, Torture and Abuse in Interrogations, No freedom of movement, and also Water control

            Exploitation of Palestinian Labor: Haaretz, MEE, 972, CMEC

      • theparadox@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        But do you condemn Hamas?®

        Most people don’t support war crimes.

        But, at the moment, it’s war crimes vs. bigger war crimes. The question is, is the perpetrator of war crimes willing to stop war crimes when it’s the only conceivable leverage to stop bigger war crimes? Big war crimes likely doesn’t give a fuuuuuck about the little war crimes though - they literally killed the hostages in several situations. They are just pitching a tent because it’s an excuse for them to do even bigger war crimes.

        • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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          10 months ago

          See condemning Hamas is a joke to you. I see people cosplaying as Hamas as Palestine protests. Cosplaying as genocidal maniacs.

          Condemning Hamas would have been the smart move for the Palestinian movement. But it’s too dominated by hatred to make smart moves. Which is why it’s only the young and naive that support it.

          • theparadox@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            I see people cosplaying as Hamas as Palestine protests. Cosplaying as genocidal maniacs.

            I can’t take you seriously.

            First, Israel has committed war crimes against Palestinians for decades. When nobody plays by the rules there is no point in quoting the rules.

            Very few people condone killing civilians or taking hostages. Most people support the liberation of the Palestinian people and peace.

            Which is why it’s only the young and naive that support it.

            Only the naive think that the situation is anywhere near as cut and dry as you seem to imply it is. And only the gullible think any fraction of the population worth mentioning are cosplaying as or celebrating the actions of Hamas.

            • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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              10 months ago

              And only the gullible think any fraction of the population worth mentioning are cosplaying as or celebrating the actions of Hamas.

              This isn’t being called out, people just looking the other way.

              A lot of people will say Netanyahu is a horrible leader. And in all likelihood he’ll be gone in the next election. Nobody is willing to call out Hamas, or any Palestinian leadership. So Palestinians will always be stuck with bad leaders. It’s why this conflict was inevitable. Hamas would never be removed by Palestinians, they’d be stuck with them forever if it weren’t for this current action. Too much support from naive people.

              • theparadox@lemmy.world
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                10 months ago

                Naive and gullible, like I said. Or, alternatively, just a disgusting person willfully attempting to spread disinformation.

        • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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          10 months ago

          Israel ended it’s occupation of Gaza a long time ago. You’re probably too young to have been following the news back then. Israel removed all it’s settlements from Gaza and withdrew it’s military. There was a lot of hope for the future of Gaza. It’s on the sea and could trade. There’s nice beaches there, so who knows, there could even be a tourist industry there.

          A lot of optimism back then. This was the path to peace. Once the economy improves in Gaza, and there’s peace and prosperity there, the world could pressure Israel to do the same with the West Bank.

          Then a plurality of Palestinians voted for Hamas. Hamas took power. Well shit.

          It seems a lot of Palestinians didn’t consider the

          There was a failed attempt to depose them. And a blockade. Because of course… the Hamas government had as it’s stated goal to destroy Israel.

          And yeah Hamas wasn’t effective at governing. Fascists never are never very good at that. But the UN filled in the gaps for them. Kept things going more or less.

          But just because Gaza was a failed state doesn’t mean it wasn’t a state. And yeah it wasn’t recognized by anyone because no one in their right mind would recognize the Hamas psychos as a legitimate government.

          Gaza was briefly the only free part of Palestine. Until Hamas fucked it all up.

          • HACKthePRISONS@kolektiva.social
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            10 months ago

            >Gaza was briefly the only free part of Palestine. Until Hamas fucked it all up.

            Israel can free Palestine right now. get rid of the walls and lift the blockade. it is Israel that keeps Palestine from being free.

          • HACKthePRISONS@kolektiva.social
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            10 months ago

            >Fascists never are never very good at that

            Mussolini made the trains run on time. you’ll forgive me if I don’t believe you have a good historical analysis or knowledge.

            • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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              10 months ago

              Mussolini made the trains run on time.

              You repeating this old fascist propaganda just proved my point. That’s been debunked a long time ago, yet you’re still repeating it.

      • harderian729@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        War crimes literally aren’t real.

        Saying something is a “war crime” essentially means “and they got away with it.” Just look at what’s happening in Ukraine.

        • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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          10 months ago

          A war crime is literally a crime that happens during a war.

          Crime occurs in normal day to day life too. Both of these things are terrible.

          What’s important is those who do the crimes (whether in war or otherwise) face justice. Generally Israel prosecutes soldiers that commit crimes. I find it doubtful Palestinians will prosecute Yahya Sinwar for his war crimes.

  • unalivejoy@lemm.ee
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    10 months ago

    Hamas better not do anything stupid over the next six week period.

  • blahsay@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    Hamas will never accept any offer that lets the young female hostages tell of their horrors. They’ll mull it over and find some excuse.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Its all projection, folks.

      Israeli military chief rabbi-designate under fire over remarks on rape

      Rabbi Colonel Eyal Karim’s remarks 14 years ago stirred controversy at the time and remain on an Israeli religious website today

      He responded that in the interests of maintaining warriors’ morale and fighting fitness during armed conflict, it was permitted to “satisfy the evil inclination by lying with attractive Gentile women against their will”.

      His nomination on Monday as the military’s head rabbi by its chief of staff revived public debate over Karim. Yedioth Ahronoth, Israel’s best-selling newspaper, weighed in with a front-page headline that read: “New chief military rabbi: rape is permissible in a war”.

      UN experts condemn ‘credible’ reports of executions, sexual assault by Israeli soldiers

      The independent experts affiliated with the U.N. Human Rights Council said the allegations constitute “egregious human rights violations,” adding to criticisms of the Israeli war effort in Gaza as its military reportedly prepares a ground invasion of Rafah.

      “We are particularly distressed by reports that Palestinian women and girls in detention have also been subjected to multiple forms of sexual assault, such as being stripped naked and searched by male Israeli army officers,” the experts said. “At least two female Palestinian detainees were reportedly raped while others were reportedly threatened with rape and sexual violence.”

      The release adds that some photographs of women in degrading circumstances had been distributed online by Israeli soldiers.

      • underisk@lemmy.ml
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        10 months ago

        There has, to my knowledge, not been a single first-hand account of a woman saying “I was raped by Hamas”. All of it is based on anonymous eye witnesses, dead bodies Israel assures us were raped, or doctors speaking on behalf of returned hostages they refuse to name and have yet to come forward.

        For as much rape as supposedly went on it sure is strange that there aren’t at least a few victims speaking of their experiences, if only just to confirm it happened. I’m happy to believe women when there are women to believe.

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          There has, to my knowledge, not been a single first-hand account of a woman saying “I was raped by Hamas”.

          No sudden influx of women into Israeli rape crisis centers, either. No hospitals on record with a surge of sexual assault victims. It appears to be an entirely fabricated claim, intended to deflect the more embarrassing nature of the incident (Palestinian rebels overwhelming a poorly administered IDF checkpoint) by re-contextualizing a kind of massive prison break as a Clockwork Orange orgy of ultra-violence.

          I’m happy to believe women when there are women to believe.

          Well, unless they’re Palestinian women, in which case they can’t be trusted because they are Hamas.