• RegalPotoo@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    Is there a charge for “attempted negligent homicide” or something? You did something so catastrophically stupid that was all but guaranteed to kill someone except you got lucky, but you still should end up getting censured so you don’t roll the dice on someone’s life again

    • Etterra@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      Reminds me of an story I heard once. Guy working on a job locks and tags out a circuit so he can work on it. Guy goes up on a ladder to do the work.

      Coworker comes along and sees circuit left locked; he decides he needs to activate the circuit. Coworker uses bolt cutters to remove the lock and flips on the circuit.

      Guy on ladder gets literally knocked off the ladder, falls 10-20 feet onto grass. Guy is rushed to the ER.

      Boss investigates, gives coworker two options: either he can quit immediately, or he can keep working and personally explain himself to guy in a month when he gets out of the hospital.

      • RegalPotoo@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        Where I live, for that kind of incident the employer would be obligated (as in, $50k worth of fines and likely criminal charges if you don’t) to report it to an independent investigator to determine who was at fault; the person cut the lock would be liable for a fine, and the employer would have to prove that they adequately trained the employee before allowing them to work in a high risk area, or the health and safety officer and company directors could be found criminally liable

        • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          In my area, there’s a decent chance the guy with the bolt cutters could be criminally liable, if he was adequately trained. That could easily be negligent homicide.

          You do not cut locks. If your boss asks you to cut a lock, report them so they get immediately fired. We don’t fuck around with LOTO.

        • ulterno@lemmy.kde.social
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          9 months ago

          Now I understand why you need 20+ supervision and management staff for 2 ppl doing actual work.

      • Empricorn@feddit.nl
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        9 months ago

        I worked briefly at a store where the Store Director was clearly still traumatized about an employee death years prior. Didn’t press for details, but it was preventable and they were hyper-vigilant about safety precautions.

        The world would be better without Captain Bolt Cutter and their kind spreading misery with their weaponized stupidity.

      • uranibaba@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        I remember reading something similar, with someone responding that they were always two people for these tasks. One doing the job and one guarding the circuit, making sure this does not happen.

        • Agent641@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          This is why you need 2 people to reactivate the circuit, one with the boltcutters, the other to fight the guard.

      • makyo@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        Option three - lock tag and then send coworker up, leaving original guy behind at the circuit with the bolt cutters to do as he sees fit.

    • jkrtn@lemmy.ml
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      9 months ago

      No, this is a corporation, so unfortunately the best we can do is some tax cuts maybe a massive bailout.

    • Madison420@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      Hey at first it said “only hit this button if you really hate Phil, it will kill him.” but they thought better and changed it.

  • Dr. Coomer@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    When preparing/working on a machine, TURN IT OFF. IT IS LITERALLY THE FIRST STEP WHEN REPAIR ANY PIECE OF EQUIPMENT YOU STUPID PIECE OF SHIT.

    • hydroptic@sopuli.xyz
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      9 months ago

      Yeah I came here to say that this is a fucking terrifying “LOTO” (and I’m using the term very loosely here) procedure that most likely will eventually kill someone

      • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        9 months ago

        absolutely. I’d almost want to disassemble something like this before cleaning it properly.

        That or have a very explicit physical lock out mechanism if it’s something like a stamping press.

      • Liz@midwest.social
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        9 months ago

        There is always a way to disable a machine. The button has power. At the very least, the power to that button should be locked out. If it has to happen at the breaker, so be it.

        • Cataphract@lemmy.ml
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          9 months ago

          Only if the breaker has it’s own system for LOTO. You guys are going to get people killed lol.

        • Cataphract@lemmy.ml
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          9 months ago

          I’m only replying for visibility at this point because of the upvotes and the dangerous scenarios that are being promoted with this advice. Breaker with LOTO would be more acceptable but even then I wouldn’t trust it. People have been killed because something was wired up wrong and circuits were accidentally connected (meaning breakers off but currents still going from a connection down the line to another breaker, it can appear that the circuit is dead until a switch is flipped sending current and happens in home lighting constantly). Also, someone can simply plug the device into another outlet leaving them with a death on their hands.

          I know it’s dramatic and these are just comments, but something like this could save or take a life. I’ve seen too many workplace accidents and refuse to work in unsafe conditions or environments anymore even if it costs me the job. Last unsafe worksite I was in, nearly all of the workers walked out together when we arrived in the morning to start at a new site and saw what the project manager had in store for us (probably helped that the owner was hated and payroll had been getting screwed up for weeks). I’ll never forget that day and still keep in contact with most of them. We are all waiting and scared for the day a mass casualty is reported from the shitty work they were trying to make us do (some did report it to the authorities, but never heard what came of those reports).

          • bane_killgrind@lemmy.ml
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            9 months ago

            Yes absolutely yes.

            If equipment has a removable power feed, the plug follows the worker into the kill zone or the work doesn’t get done. If the plug doesn’t reach, and LOTO doesn’t happen, the plug gets disassembled and brought into the kill zone until the worker returns it.

            Deaths because lazy are at the feet of management.

      • Cataphract@lemmy.ml
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        9 months ago

        If a tool or machine can simply be unplugged, and the worker performing the service remains in control of the plug, then lockout procedures aren’t necessary.

      • MartianSands@sh.itjust.works
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        9 months ago

        Just one padlock is enough, but you can use up to 6.

        You need all the locks removed before it’ll open, so you don’t need to count on someone to carefully count everyone back in. You just make sure that each person uses their own lock

      • batmaniam@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        I think it’s so you can create “and” conditions for unlocking. IE: If you’ve got two locks, each with their own key, both person 1 AND person 2 need to unlock it. So you can have multiple people and/or multiple crews working on the machine across different aspects. Maybe one crew is doing electric, the other some kind of plumbing, and they’re working at different times. When one crew finishes their work, they can release their lockout without making it unsafe for the other crew.

        • Mirshe@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          Exactly this. Everyone working on that machine slaps their lock on it, and every last lock needs to be removed before the tag can come off. The welders might finish in half a day, but the electrical or water or hydraulic guys might need a whole weekend to get done, so this makes sure someone doesn’t say “oh the lock is gone” and make mincemeat out of some dude’s head.

          • batmaniam@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            Thought so. I work around this stuff but my end of it usually low voltage/low pressure/ low risk. We should observe it more but usually we just have someone that LOTOs anything going to us.

            But yeah, and for anyone else, repairs can wind up being more complicated than anticipated, parts arrive late, etc. It’s not uncommon for these to be in place for weeks sometimes when say, electrical starts something, but then plumbing needs to finish whatever before the pump motor hookup can be complete. Before you know it it’s 2 weeks later, electrical had a bunch of other jobs. The LOTO makes sure they come and inspect before unlocking rather than go “yeahhhh I’m pretty sure we left that ready to turn on, go for it” plus making sure no other work got screwed up (like a wire conduit getting drilled into by plumbing).

            To be sure, handing off the keys does happen, but if and when it happens there’s the weight of “by handing this off you’re personally taking responsibility”.

            • waz@feddit.uk
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              9 months ago

              You’re entitled, usually required, to add your personal lock onto this when you start working on a locked out job, that way you can be confident they’ll come looking for the last guy to lock off the job before they can get running again, it may save your fingers/arm/life or job. Usually there’s a permit involved and you should know the conditions of the permit, or have your own permit to join a job.

              • batmaniam@lemmy.world
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                9 months ago

                You know, we’re not required to do that but because of you I just ordered some locks and labels for the field kit (edit: as well as breaker locks).

                Our stuff is always temp (8-12mo) and on a dedicated line. The sites we’re on always involve coordinating with the clients appropriate people and specifically stating we’re not trained in this to their standards (which is why I know some of this stuff but not to the letter), but an extra layer is always a good idea. No harm ever came from an extra lock that couldn’t be fixed.

                Thanks.

                edit: for the record it’s not like we’re negligent, everything in our system is designed to fail-safe, and we compartmentalize power delivery, but still, no harm in a few extra items in the kit.

  • brazos01@lemmynsfw.com
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    9 months ago

    I actually knew a guy who died this way at a Caterpillar factory near Peoria, IL. Machine wasn’t properly tagged out/locked out.

    RIP Troy Bryner

    Update:

    Per OSHA Report:

    Investigation Nr: 200272276 Event: 04/17/2011 Employee Is Killed When Struck By Closing Lid At approximately 11:00 a.m. on April 17, 2011, Employee #1 performing maintenance on a Dunker quench hardening machine that included the repair of a hydraulic leak. He was working in an area that measured approximately 2 feet wide by 3 foot long by 4 feet deep. Employee #1 locked out the machine’s control panel and made the necessary repairs. After completing the repair work, Employee #1 instructed a coworker to remove the locks in order to verify that there were no leaks. While in the machine, Employee #1 attempted to lower the machines hydraulic cylinder by depressing the “lower press elevator” button. Instead, he depressed the “lower press lid” button. This caused the machines lid to close on Employee #1’s head, killing him. The accident investigation reported that the coworker was working to secure the “lower press lid” cover by chaining it open; however, was not able to secure it in time due to the untimely depression of its activation button.

    So, not exactly a failure to lock/out, but certainly an example of how important it is to take those types of procedures seriously. Always, good to know what actually happened.

  • Phoenixz@lemmy.ca
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    9 months ago

    When your life is protected by, and depends on a little scribbled piece of paper…

  • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
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    9 months ago

    Today on hoodroolic press channel, ve haff an intern, a new intern who’s cleaning the press, and he looks prooty dangerous, so ve must deel vif it.

  • hydration9806@lemmy.ml
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    9 months ago

    The real question is whether this was put up on April 2 or is a really old sign from Feb 4. ISO 8601 saves lives people, but probably not as many as proper lock out/tag out procedures.