• stealthnerd@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    The fall of newspapers led us down the path of click bait, low quality, ad driven “news”. Very few newspapers survived the transition to digital because suddenly nobody wanted to pay for access to something they could get online for free. Those that did survive mostly exist in a much smaller form with low funding and reduced quality.

    Personally, I’m excited to see it becoming more common for people to subscribe to news services again. I just wish there was more diversity and competition available like there was in the past but I’m hopeful we’ll get there as more people seem to be opening back up to paying for high quality publications.

    High quality journalism can’t exist without paid subscribers but there are still ways to access it for those who can’t afford it, visiting a local library for example.

    • Holyhandgrenade@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      I know “state-funded media” is an ominous word to Americans, but most European countries have their own government broadcaster and news organization, entirely funded through taxes.
      Those generally offer high-quality non-biased journalism (of course it’s always based on how authoritarian the government is). The British BBC, the Swedish SVT, the German DW etc. are all publicly owned broadcasting companies.

      • IWantToFuckSpez@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        BBC is publicly funded but they collect the money themselves trough the TV license, they are not funded by the government trough taxes and they make a shit ton of money from commercial operations, like selling shows and formats to foreign networks. That’s probably the best way to keep an independent state network with minimal government meddling. Though we’ve seen that individuals with power at the network can bias the news reporting. Like BBC definitely favors the political right.

        • NaN@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          1 year ago

          The BBC World Service is the largest and broadcasts in something like 40 languages around the world. I think the normal BBC news still uses some of the sound effects traditionally associated with their shortwave broadcasts.

      • flossdaily@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        I think it would be great to publicly fund journalism. And make public funding contingent on whether news sources accurately represent the full substance of their source material, practiced evidence-based fact-checking, and had rules to prevent the selective application of either of those first two conditions, and by omission bias their audience.

        • NaN@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          1 year ago

          You’ve just given whatever regulatory body significant power and influence. It will have its own biases if it doesn’t simply become outright politicized, and now they dictate facts or else. Inaccuracy or “fake news” are used by authoritarian regimes all the time to justify silencing of critics.

          • flossdaily@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Not necessarily. You can put safeguards in place. For example our appeals courts don’t ever decide fact. They make rulings about the law.

            You can also have bipartisan panels that oversee this, with extremely limited power unless they rule unanimously.

            You also have congressional oversight adding another check.

            If the original inception and scope of all these things is cleverly drafted, we could see a lot of new media pop up that is vastly superior to the crap we have now.

      • bakachu@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        I honestly don’t think this is a bad idea for the US…for now at least. Right now your typical options for official statements from government leaders are either through (1) politically polarized media like CNN or Fox, (2) paid subscription to better journalism, or (3) social media monopolies like Twitter (X) and Instagram. Can we really not fund something entirely independent of a mega-corporation to get official info out?

        • NaN@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          1 year ago

          PBS and NPR through the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

          The Voice of America through the United States Agency for Global Media.

          People think they’re boring, not enough anger.

      • Striker@lemmy.worldM
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        1 year ago

        Journalism student here. Tbh in my experience I have come to the conclusion that news stations should never be state owned. I think state funding for news is good but I think the best solution is a non profit ngo group running the news. When the government owns the news they can change the news and manipulate what facts get shown as is the case with the BBC.

          • Trekman10@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            It scales. Privately owned community newspapers might have a bias, but if there’s one in every town with 1,000 people, then exponentially that increases the amount of different agendas of each of those private entities, and they can sort of cover each other’s weaknesses. It’s the concentration and consolidation that’s the issue.

            Of course, private industry inherently wants to merge and consolidate, as is the nature of capitalist competition. So either you continually break up mergers or develop a public community newspapers that are independent of any government - its debatable how independent the BBC or CBC are.

            • icydefiance@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Your second paragraph is severely understated. It completely invalidates your first paragraph.

              In the USA there are 4 corporations that own pretty much all TV news, whether it’s local or not. Add another 2 corporations to cover almost everything else on TV.

              Online news is a little more diverse, but it’s heading in the same direction.

              And the government won’t break up those corporations because they’re too big for that to be possible. It’s too late. Whether the corporations use regulatory capture or just a massive team of lawyers to make antitrust lawsuits prohibitively expensive, they simply can’t be broken up.

              • Trekman10@sh.itjust.works
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                1 year ago

                It doesn’t invalidate it. It’s accurate that for a time, privately owned, for-profit newspapers would (and did in the past) result in a multitude of viewpoints since the editorial stances will are inherently more diverse between 20 newspapers instead of 2.

                Whether or not the current vertical and horizontally integrated media companies will be broken up is irrelevant to the fact that it would result in a more diverse and freer press.

                A tax funded solution would most likely take the form of a single entity. If 4 entities dominating the press is wrong, then 1 is even worse.

      • NaN@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        1 year ago

        The US government broadcaster is the Voice of America. For a long time it was unavailable to Americans (propaganda laws), but is now. Some Europeans may be familiar with Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, that is also US-funded by the same agency as the Voice of America.

        We also have NPR and public broadcasting (PBS), both have news. They receive government funding through the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, which is supposed to be objective although there have been issues in recent history. They also have corporate donors, which could affect objectivity.

    • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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      1 year ago

      Very few newspapers survived the transition to digital because suddenly nobody wanted to pay for access to something they could get online for free.

      This has nothing to do with click bait low quality ad driven news.

      The cut off of access to information is a fundamental problem of using capitalism to allocate resources in an information economy. Information does not behave the same as matter and energy, it is a fundamentally different physical property of the universe, and unlike matter and energy, it is not conserved and limited in the same way.

      With matter and energy, to replicate it, you need the same amount of resources as the original, if you possess the original, I cannot possess it, and to make a copy I need all the metal /energy that you did to make the first one. But with information, once it exists in a digital format, we can effectively replicate it infinitely and immediately to everyone around the globe, for next to nothing. At a fundamental level, information does not have the same property of scarcity as literally all physical goods. Information is fundamentally different at the physics level, then matter and energy.

      And that’s a problem now that we’re trying to use capitalism to fund an information economy. Capitalism is entirely based on the idea of scarce things being valuable; despite everyone needing oxygen / air to live, it is not valuable in most places because it is not scarce.

      So what has happened? Did we act intelligently and back up and examine whether capitalism is the right system of resource allocation for the information economy where information has the ability to flow freely to everyone? No. We had fistedly spend billions and billions of dollars and wasted millions of people’s lives building the copyright system, and the patent system, and paywalls and DRM, all in the pursuit of creating artificial scarcity where there was never a need for it.

    • Spicylem@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      I do agree that more competition with enough subscribers is better. I wish more regional “papers” had been able to convert. I live in a large city with a terrible paper and would gladly pay for better local news and Journalism.

      The trouble is it’s hard to subscribe to every paper. I like that you at least get a handful of free times articles.

      Medium attempts to provide quality work paid directly to the writers and journalists but it’s hard for them to do big projects.

      Several universities and business schools provide op-ed type pieces.

    • ineedaunion @lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Agree, yet disagree. That article on Suits that shows what the writers got paid vs the views vs the amount of money executives get, shows that all we need to do is get the money into the hand of the deserving people instead of the billionaire stockholders.

  • N-E-N@lemmy.ca
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    1 year ago

    Everyone hates ads but no one wants to pay for it lol

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      I do pay for my local paper, cable, spotify, disney+, Netflix…

      Only so much blood in this here stone.

      • Trekman10@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        With so many shows getting canceled, or even un-confirmed and then obliterated from existence all for tax write offs, I’m kinda soured on Streaming these days.

        Hopefully the WGA and SAG strikes are successful and result in streaming improving again, back to how it felt during the mid 2010s.

      • demlet@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Please tell me you aren’t getting your news from Disney. But seriously, a halfway decent local paper is probably more worth your attention than the latest attention grabbing headline at the NYT. Good choice.

    • SIGSEGV@sh.itjust.works
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      No, not everybody hates ads. Everybody hates today’s ads, because they’re literally as intrusive and annoying as the designers can make them. I didn’t have a problem with ads 15 years ago, but because I have to pay for my bandwidth, and because ads like to literally block what I’m reading with a giant, 100MB, unskippable video, I use an ad blocker.

      Advertising shot itself in the foot, and it isn’t our fault for being pushed so far that we’re fed up with it.

      • Noodle07@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Unskipable ads when I’m browsing my files on my phone, how fucking obnoxious can you possibly make them?

          • a Kendrick fan@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            There’re some wack lowly made phones sold in countries without good standards that do this.

            A friend’s phone shows ad in every app, from google stock apps to whatapp and even fucking phone/call app. Around 30 pixels of ad blocked at the bottom of the screen whenever mobile data is on.

      • scurry@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        I agree with most of that, but I feel like we weren’t using the same Internet 15 years ago. There were still ample popups and popunders, many of which you couldn’t easily close (more than a few did the funny ‘you are an idiot’ trick of just open windows faster than you can close them to me). They were loud, both visually but also they would actually play sound in non-video pages (sometimes multiple at once). Most of them were either disgust or porn based (or the really funny meme of both at the same time). And there were so. Many. Viruses. I feel like advertisers have never been particularly respectful of the end user, and the main difference is that now they’re actively spying, where they maybe weren’t 20 years ago.

      • N-E-N@lemmy.ca
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        1 year ago

        Idk, 15 years ago I was watching cable and 1/3 of my time was spent subjected to ads on a paid service. I think I prefer them now lol

    • FluffyToaster621@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      Some sites (Fandom Wikis) are unbearable with ads. Sure, you could pay to remove them, but only because it’s so infuriating to navigate the content when it has multiple ads—some that follow you—INSIDE the content of the articles.

      Autoplaying videos, side banners, and scrolling ads are the worst and actively make me want to avoid the sites unless adblock is on.

      • N-E-N@lemmy.ca
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        That’s why I use an inverted ad-block list. I see ads unless they get intrusive or unreasonable, and then I enable blocking on the site.

      • Trekman10@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        When I had more income I paid for the NYT, but tbh they’ve made enough questionable editorial decisions lately that I’ve decided it wasn’t worth it. The Guardian isn’t paywalled at least.

    • BurtReynoldsMustache@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Journalism should be accessible to everyone. Not many people can afford 30 different subscriptions for every individual news outlet because they’re all pay to read. Remember newspapers? Anyone could buy one on the cheap, now these fuckers have moved to a subscription service that’s even more expensive than the average newspaper used to be.

      • N-E-N@lemmy.ca
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        1 year ago

        Well there are 3 alternatives.

        Ads, which everyone on here would endorse blocking, so that’s out.

        All journalism becomes volunteer work, running off of optional donations, which seems unlikely :D

        Or all journalism becomes publicly funded via-taxes. This is probably the optimal option but I think most people would agree that ALL journalism being government funded has a ton of risks.

        • Smoogs@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          If I have to pay for it:

          • it cannot be sensationalized. It cannot even veer mildly from the found facts.
          • it cannot be filled with agenda bias
          • it cannot hold any false, non peer reviewed information
          • they have to pay their sources. And They have to pay their sources well. Especially the ones who are expected to uphold to peer reviews (science journalists, I’m looking at you)

          If there is a free one with ads:

          • ads cannot fabricate their facts either.

          Wanna regulate? Well. Then. Let’s regulate.

    • Reliant1087@lemmy.world
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      I’m perfectly willing to pay what I pay for the actual news paper for the subscription. The subscription turns out to be about 10x.

      • N-E-N@lemmy.ca
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        I’m defending the right for people to make a profit from their labour 🤷‍♂️ even if ads aren’t my preference either

      • boyi@lemmy.sdf.org
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        A little bird told me you’re in cognizance of the way to finance online journalism without depending on ads and subscriptions of readers. That’s a good news. Care to share how?

      • NuPNuA@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        There’s nothing wrong with advertising in of itself, society has lived with advertisements for goods and services for a long time. Unless you’re unreasonably susceptible to suggestion you should be able to safely navigate them. Some sites take the mick with how they present them but they have to make money somehow.

        • dx1@lemmy.world
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          There is something wrong with advertising in and of itself. Imagine a sphere of all information available to humans, and inside that sphere there’s a corruption of information that’s deceitful, self-promoting for its originators, in excess of what people actually need to know about specific companies or products, and based on manipulation techniques and de-facto brainwashing. This twists decision-making for the entire society.

          The only defense is that it’s a “necessary evil” because of the perverse economic structures in our society.

          And P.S., the fact something’s been around for a long time is not an ethical defense, and people “unreasonably susceptible to suggestion” (i.e. influenced by ads) are a staggering % of the popularity, probably a majority.

    • Not A Bird@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      There is a reason for it, isn’t there? Bullshit is motivated to manipulate, and spread propaganda. While, truth based journalism needs professionals to do due diligence. While we can argue for better journalism, wishing for everything to be free ain’t gonna work.

      Unless we are okay with… Ads. We won’t tolerate that either, would we?

  • Vespair@lemm.ee
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    It’s not talked about enough how “traditional news” is culpable for the rise of “fake news” by locking vital information and reporting behind exactly these kinds of pay walls, thus causing people to seek alternative free means instead. This is how fake news sites thrive; pushed into the forefront by traditional media who refuse to adapt their business models to the modern landscape.

    • Cataphract@lemmy.ko4abp.com
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      1 year ago

      How do you feel about government subsidies being used to bolster a free press? From past examples like oil, they don’t become a shell company of the governments whims and I feel journalism is just as important to an educated populace in comparison to oil for our commerce.

      • Zengen@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        This actually isnt a terrible strategy. Right now the news sites require profit for survival. Leading them to do well frankly… Whatever it takes to make that happen. Which leads us to the road we are on now. If their survival was subsidized and they were simply paid to provide the service of good journalism. This would be beneficial as journalism at its core is a PUBLIC service. That is currently being sold as a commercial commodity.

        • killa44@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          This is really the case for all essential services (which I believe factual new is). Just look at the mess healthcare has made, or the ‘food industry’, or education.

      • Vespair@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        I never said free, I said they needed to adapt their business model. I also never said the reason didn’t make sense, but the ramifications remain the same even if there is good reason for the practice. Whether by design or not, they still share culpability.

    • Tangent5280@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Now it makes sense. The dream of universal access to knowledge was actually the iphone’s - and it was because the phone was dying, and seeing death visions, like life flashing before it’s eyes.

  • Spicylem@lemmy.world
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    Looks like a login wall. While I get the “joke” or irony, Journalism has never been free. Servers, journalists, investigations, and apps still cost money. So did printing and delivery. There are countless sources of information online so you do not have to join The Times but for some the journalistic value is worth the price.

    Wikipedia offers knowledge to the world for free and are maintained through donation (including myself) and philanthropy. It has its issues but provides free information.

    I think we can a enjoy a variety of options. Paid journalism, ad based news, and “free” community supported. There likely are other models we can adopt.

    Other free sources I use. Roca News app Gabe Fleisher’s Wake up to Politics Knowledge at Wharton

    • Carighan Maconar@lemmy.world
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      Aye, very much this.

      I don’t know it is in other countries but here in Germany some “baseline” news is provided from money collected via a tax, which is very awesome as it ensures everyone has access to at least some news source. On top of that there’s Wikipedia, as you say, but beyond that everyone still has to be aware that investigative journalism takes a lot of time and effort.

    • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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      This is an inherent problem with the concept of free information. I would love universal and free information, but that doesn’t take into consideration that quality information requires labor. Wikipedia isn’t free of that either, the labor is just largely unpaid.

      At the end of the day, we need to pay journalists, editors, curators, and contributors. If you want quality news, you need quality people. And to get quality people, you need generous compensation, whether that comes from subscriptions, advertisements, or taxes.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldOP
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      Hopefully when you log in you haven’t reached your limit of free articles for the month if you want to read it.

      • wander1236@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        And that no one else on your public IP has reached it, since it seems to be IP-based.

        There are so many times I try to read an NYT article and it says I’ve reached my limit when I haven’t even visited the site in the past month.

  • InternetTubes@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Sort of feel that dream really went downhill fast the moment troll factories and Cambridge Analytica / Emerdata showed how much it could be milked and paved the way for the expansions on doing it.

  • •••@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    Universal access, as in everyone need to pay 8 dollars a month for the privilege.

    • espentan@lemmy.world
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      Yeah, I still dont get why people can’t just work for for free! Greedy bastards.

      Especially publishers. It’s not like they play an important role in modern society, at all. They can do research, perform interviews and write stories during the day, and then, if they absolutely need food and a friggin’ roof over their heads, they can work at McDonald’s or something in the evenings.

      /s

      • redcalcium@lemmy.institute
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        News agency should’ve been operated by non-profit organizations IMO. The non-profit organizations can be funded by grants, donations, etc (e.g. like how wikimedia is funded).

          • redcalcium@lemmy.institute
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            Probably not the best idea though for independent journalism. My country had a publicly funded news agency and it was notorious for never reporting any bad thing the government did.

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              1 year ago

              Speaking from the US, so please forgive my underlying bias:

              If we could figure out how to actually maintain a “separation of powers” maybe we could actually have a little more “for the people, by the people”. And I don’t mean it as just a US standpoint (though I am quoting our doctines), because I do believe that those ideologies have merit. But here I am in the US, still “wondering” how “separation of church and state” can’t be (and never truly was) maintained.

              People hold the power AND people need to be held accountable. I really wish we could find a way to balance that appropriately. Maybe simply throwing around a few more “-isms” could fix it (the last sentence is sarcasm)

      • MrShankles@reddthat.com
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        I’d rather my taxes go to public services than being diluted into the pockets of middle-men. Publishers are still be valuable, but they have to adapt like everyone else. Education, healthcare, and information… sounds like a recipe for too much equality; better to stomp that out and continue forth, like the term “future” doesn’t exist for everyone

        Why would I want change when I’m finally getting the hang of things? That sounds difficult and scary, and I might have to adjust my lifestyle… and for what? Other people!? Morals!? Justice!? We already have those, otherwise I would’ve never made it to where I am today… backslash-fucking-s

        If democracy wasn’t constantly undermined by greed, we might actually solve real problems. But problems are too far in the future for me, when I’ll no longer be alive to care. Continue status-quo than, nothing we can do

        • DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe
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          Well I’m glad we all agree that “universal access” always has a cost, so unless you want to nationalize the press I’m not sure what y’all want.

          Maybe we can just leave them a profit driven third party that you are legally required to support with your taxes? Seems like praxis to me, no problems with that at all.

          • MrShankles@reddthat.com
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            Equity. I just don’t know how we’ll ever achieve it. A common enemy of the human race, maybe? We’ve already perfected fighting each other. Maybe if a “physical something” were attacking us, that we could kill; we might find a little more “human camaraderie”.

            Put a scooby-doo-type mask on climate change, so we can have something physical to try and punch. But “Jinkies! It was something intangible this whole time!”.

  • qjkxbmwvz@lemmy.sdf.org
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    Just curious — how would you like this to work? If you want high quality journalism, you need to pay journalists.

    You can pay them through ads, but 1) this is annoying, and 2) people just install ad blockers.

    You can have state-sponsored media, which can work reasonably well…or can end up a propaganda machine.

    Or…you can pay.

    Journalism is not a crazy lucrative career for most. Financially, most of the folks writing for NYT would be better off in PR — and I don’t think that’s a good thing for society.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldOP
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      1 year ago

      Or you can have voluntary sponsorship like NPR has done for decades and has high quality journalism because of it. Yes, they get a tiny bit of government money. Nowhere near enough to operate on. And they get corporate sponsors. Who they report against when they have a story about.

      • univers3man@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Sadly, NPR is nowhere near as unbiased as they used to be. I listened to it recently, and it’s just not good anymore. They engage in both sides whataboutism, only ask softball questions, and generally seem to toe the line of appearing neutral but not risking their corporate funding.

        Now, if they didn’t need corporate funding, that would be ideal. I believe that would lead to more unbiased reporting.

        • SnowdropDelusion@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          So I haven’t seen any of what you are talking about, and I’m an avid consumer of NPR. I love that they generally avoid rage bait and present the news in a calm yet accurate manner.

          That being said, I am open to being persuaded if you can present some solid evidence.

    • Not_Alec_Baldwin@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      You need to earn my trust if you want me to pay.

      Many of these legacy media outlets are demanding Netflix-level fees for fanfic-level content.

    • lemmyman@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      As a paying NYT subscriber, I’d just like to add that unfortunately they still advertise to me.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldOP
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      1 year ago

      I found the image on Mastodon, so it’s not mine, but I agree. I never let my battery get below 50% if I can help it. If it gets below 20, I’m in panic mode.

      • timo_timboo@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        I never let my battery get below 50% if I can help it.

        that doesn’t sound great for the battery

        • scurry@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Most modern devices can manage the battery for you pretty well, helping with any harm it might do. But even then, it’s less bad for the battery than deep discharges and recharges (where the battery does get low). It’s honestly probably fine.

        • Klaymore@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          Modern Lithium-Ion batteries like to stay between like 40%-70% charge, and going above or below that wears of out a bit faster. It was older batteries where you needed to fully empty and fully charge them.

      • a Kendrick fan@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        Why?

        Genuinely I let mine drop to 5% before charging, I think letting it discharges makes the battery last longer.

        • HerrBeter@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Nah you want to have like 20% or so. Dendrites and other li-ion demons enjoy lower charge, and enjoy when charging is done in cold weather