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Oh America, come on:
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end (and stop exporting) that vicious tipping culture of yours. Just pay decent wages to people in customer service.
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change the design of yours bills, make them easily recognizable, with different colors and sizes like normal curencies.
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take religion out of the money.
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and since I’m at it, end gun culture and disarm your people. Also SUVs, end that too. And introduce controlled prices in health services, regulate, regulate, regulate, till it becomes a functional system affordable by everyone.
Thanks. I would love you so much more.
Congrats, you managed to alienate 85% of political financial backers.
You got my vote.
Americans will never be disarmed. Look up the process for changing a Constitutional Amendment when you feel like learning something new sometime.
Funny how there’s been 27 amendments tho
Did you read about the process to change Amendments? Do you think there’s any chance that 3/4 of the 50 states in the USA would ever vote in agreement to abolish their own right to bear arms? I’m confident enough that will not happen that I will bet you $5000 that it does not happen in the next 30 years.
!RemindMe 30 years
I just hope I’m around that long to win that bet
27 times already. I’d say the math works. The Repubeicans are at their end. This is their last kicks. They know the world is changing and they are not in favor. That’s why they have the corrupt syrpeme court in a attempt to get in what the minority wants.
You’re not very informed if you think only Republicans support the right to bear arms.
Yeah, historically it should be the people-focused parties that really want the people to be armed, not the business-focused parties. Of course the people-focused party here is also the big-government party, so that muddies things.
The motto of the US is in god we trust, which is why it’s on money. It became the motto in the 50s when Christian nationalism became a prominent position, which is the root of the evil that is the gop. The gop would need to be a minority in government in both houses of Congress in order to change the motto, unfortunately.
It’s a change that is definitely needed, however the Christian nationalists are controlling the conversation, as was designed by McCarthyism. In TX, schools are required to hang a poster that says the motto if it is donated by a citizen. In the last legislative session, there was also a bill that would have required every classroom to post the ten commandments.
It is going to take an effort to go vote by the populace at large. In 2022, only about 80% of the Voting Age population was registered and of that 80%, only ~46% cast a vote despite the fact that it was a major election. A large portion of the judicial branch, almost all of the executive branch, and the entire legislative branch of TX were up for election and we only got 37% of the Voting Age population to the polls. Even with polls open for at least 9 hours a day the first week of voting and 12 hours the second week and final day of voting. Being the first state to have early voting, it’s common knowledge that there is virtually no line during early voting, but we still don’t have turnout.
Anyway, on top of needing people to go to the polls, we need a cultural revolution that rejects far-right ideology. McCarthyism purged centrist and left leaning ideology from the country and we are only in the last couple decades starting to see more centrist policies come into play.
A major problem with voting in this country is that it’s not a national holiday, If your working minimum wage you likely can’t afford to take the time away from work which means politicians that campaign on a higher wage lose preventing a wage rise creating a loop. The people that are best suited to vote are those that are well off and retired and statistically they lean republican because of people not wanting to help others disadvantaged while seemingly forgetting that they used those programs to get there. People working at minimum wage or even generally low wages and paycheck to paycheck just can’t afford the time to vote and their best chances are mail in voting which republicans know, that’s why they’re pushing so hard against them to make it as inconvenient as possible, because if its easier to vote in person and the people you don’t want voting cant vote in person then you just eliminated them from the voting pool by circumstance.
There is also a lack of push for midterms and local elections, the presidential race is very big and public and made a whole spectacle, like you can still remember the 2016 and 2020 elections but be honest with me, what can you remember about the campaigns of the 2018 midterms. The 2022 midterms were basically an exception to the rule because the abortion ruling happened so close and it created such visible lines in the sand but I truly think if the abortion ruling happened in February 2021 not long after Biden got into office the turnout for 2022 midterms wouldn’t have had as big of a turnout because it wouldn’t have been in the public mind quite as much, the debate on abortions is still big but its mostly shifted to individual states rather than country wide at this point.
I do remember 2018 because it was a huge race in TX with Beto going against Cruz.
I understand that it can be inconvenient, but most people aren’t at work from 7 AM-7 PM when the polls are open for an entire week. Some are even open an hour or two later (law allows polls between 6 AM and 10 PM and we should be pushing for those late times). People just don’t wake up early or leave for the pills before or after work. I’ve lived in all the major cities in TX besides San Antonio and have never waited more than 15 minutes to vote. There’s a lie going around that it takes forever, when that’s only true on the very last day that you can cast a vote. I’ve seen posts on social media from poll workers saying that there were no lines during early voting at all.
I can understand not making it the first week of voting when they are only open from 8-5, but with some effort, most people should be able to make it when polls are open 7-7.
Should we have mail in voting? Yes. Should we have polls open until 10 PM on weekdays and polls open on the weekend (as already allowed by law)? Yes
We just aren’t going to have some other those things until people use the system that’s already in place and vote.
Could have sworn I was “E Pluribus Unum”.
After a quick search I see they changed/never officially adopted it.
Lame, so much cooler!
Lost me at guns, everything else I agree with.
I got kinda lost w/the religion and money bullet. It’s a bit abstract. Is that about churches escaping taxation?
No. In God we trust is on all our money for some stupid reason.
Ah, I had to zoom in to see “in trump we trust”. How disgusting… that gives a bit more perspective.
It’s cold war era propaganda, it’s not even that old. There was a belief at the time among certain circles that since the USSR outlawed organized religion that the US needed to embrace organized religion even harder and to drive that point home we should put “In god we trust” on all our money. A lot of the US’s current issues can be traced back to cold war propaganda surprisingly. Boomers have been stewing in that garbage their entire lives and it rotted their brains to the point where you can reduce them to frothing incoherent rage by just saying “socialism” around them.
For a country that has such a mix of people, seems pretty stupid regardless the reason.
I keep forgetting that there are people who still use cash.
I love using cash. I feel like I am thwarting The System since it keeps pressuring me to use credit cards or some other form of electronic currency. I mean I use some of those too when necessary, but I use cash whenever possible.
That’s fair.
A lot of low-income households in the USA don’t have bank accounts and only use cash.
It amazes me how far behind America is simply because they hate poor people so much, passing regulation to ensure people have fee free access to banking services? Same answer as anything ‘nope, fuck the poor’ it’s crazy too because it’s greed of people saying ‘why should they get something for nothing!!!’ but everything to do with banking is more expensive and worse in the US, even cash machines charge a couple of dollars to get your money.
I think tipping culture is a weird social hierarchy thing too, like people love to feel like they’re a higher strata then their server plus have that control over them ‘your wages are in my hands, peasant, now serve me like the lord of the manor!’ everywhere else there’s a camaraderie with workers and I think it feels a lot nicer, the waiter isn’t trying to upsell or get into your graces to earn a dirty penny they’re just doing their job and interacting with you on a fundamentally human level.
And more are welcome. The war on cash must stop. Shopping should be a private matter.
Modern US currency is somewhat colorful.
The first and the last bullets are never going to change sadly. Tipping is only on the increase, guns are just like an inherent part of America now - kids are getting slaughtered by them daily and it’s just like normal. Gun control is a laughable proposal in the US. If it hasn’t changed with all the reasons to change, it’s not going to. SUVs are actually becoming MORE popular. Healthcare is fucked.
I agree with you except the weapons.
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Agreed, though keep your filthy fingers off my gas guzzler
Edit: people calm down. I’m just joking - it’s actually a diesel
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Tipping isn’t bad. Being underpaid is bad. If we as consumers want to add a little more for good service, I don’t see a problem.
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Make dollar coins a thing again.
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Remove presidents too.
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Guns are for weak people. 100% of gun owners I know are massive cowards. Tell your friends. If we can’t get legislation, maybe we can change the culture. SUVs are fine, it’s the massive pickup trucks that are getting out of hand. Give us the Hilux already, and make it electric. Healthcare should be universal and single-payer. End the health insurance industry.
We are trying…
Edit: Please tell me why you disagree, don’t just downvote me. Downvote is not a “disagree” button. I’m just trying to share my thoughts the best I can.
Tipping had devolved from customers saying “I’ll give something extra for extra service” to restaurants saying “since you pay for the food, why don’t you pay for the staff too?”
Only real way to get rid of this culture is to ban it to start. Workers need to demand living wages at the same time as ban comes into effect.
Only real way to get rid of this culture is to ban it to start.
A ban would be a bit extreme. Is tipping banned anywhere?
For me, the fix is to establish a fixed tip like some parts of Europe used to have. E.g. $1—2 per person for good service regardless of bill. This would accomplish two things:
- The tip cannot be an income supplement (thus wages increase if the resto wants to have staff)
- There is still a quality control signal in place
Tipping isn’t bad. Being underpaid is bad. If we as consumers want to add a little more for good service, I don’t see a problem.
The two are at odds with each other; that’s the problem.
I think in this case, “banned” is referring to “paying workers below minimum hourly wage because they’re expected to make up the difference by convincing our patrons to generously donate +20% of their dinner bill”, not “citizens will be fined/incarcerated if they give someone money of their own free will”
That would make sense, but then why did they follow that with “Workers need to demand living wages at the same time as ban comes into effect”?
Because it logically follows. If the businesses have to stop relying on customers to pay their employees what they are worth. Someone should have to pay their employees a valid living wage. And that logically would be the company.
Right but that’s not the logic I replied to. @Amilo159@lemmy.world proposed a ban on tips, not on below min wage payments, then wrote as a separate statement that higher wages should be demanded. So @4am@lemmy.world’s interpretation was an incorrect interpretation – though it’s the right idea.
You seem to be viewing tips as an all-or-nothing proposition. When in fact you can have a tipping culture that is not used as a crutch for wages (as most of Europe demonstrates).
- Tipping is bad, since it has been taken to the logical extreme of making the customer directly responsible for paying staff, instead of the money going into the business’ coffers, to be redistributed as wage from there.
- Actually not gonna complain about this one, but that does not take away from the fact that you need to inspect bills of the US dollar for what magnitude of currency it is. Be it a dollar, a fiver, or a hundred, they all have the same size and colour. Unlike more sane currencies, where each denomination of bill has a different size and colour, making it readily apparent if you’re holding five, twenty or a hundred of it.
- Not gonna say anything about this.
- SUV’s are trash. And so are modern Pickup trucks. Source of my points, if you care
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- They hog fuel & pollute excessively.
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- you can’t see shit out of them, especially right near the bumper.
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- As a result of a stiffer frame and higher ground clearance, they’re more fatal in a crash with people, or even regular cars, both for the other party and for their own occupants. And because they’re big, heavy & unwieldy, they’re more likely to end up in a crash in the first place.
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- they hog space on the road, making traffic and parking worse
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- they weigh a fuckton, making road maintenance more expensive
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- there are vehicles out there that can do what an SUV or a Pickup truck can do, but much more efficiently & cost-effectively
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- The people most likely to vehemently insist these abominations are supposed to keep existing have been found, by market research, to be obsessed with status, be less likely to volunteer, have no strong connection to their community, be less giving, be less oriented towards others, be more afraid of crime, be more likely to text & drive and be more likely to take risks while driving. In other words, SUV fanboys are assholes.
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- When, a decade or so ago, one researcher put plastic animals along the side of the road, to see which ones people were more likely to hit, some people purposely went out of their way to run over them. Those people were in 89% of cases SUV drivers. The timing is relevant, since at the time, most American car makers still sold regular cars.
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- Most SUV’s and Pickup trucks end up being used for exactly nothing you would need them for.
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SUVs are not fine, they’re getting bigger and bigger along with the trucks at the same damn time.
Gun owners aren’t cowards, being afraid of guns makes you a coward. Learn to handle guns so you don’t have to piss yourself in fear.
SUVs are for bad drivers that need to be in giant vehicles to feel safe due to their own inabilities. Some large trucks are acceptable for work purposes but SUV manufacturers use legislation for work trucks made years ago to get away with ignoring safety standards.
Electric cars aren’t better for the environment in our current ecosystem. You might not be burning fuel in your car but you’re burning coal at the power plant. Beyond that all you’ve done is make yourself more dependent on the power grid. If you are one of the very few people with self sufficient electric in your home you can skip this one.
Free healthcare doesn’t equal good healthcare. People in places with free healthcare have to wait ages for treatment and may be turned away from treatment if the government is over their saving your life budget. The insurance industry could use some work though, hospital bills increase because they can get that money from an insurance provider, this fucks anyone without insurance because most people don’t realize they can negotiate those prices down.
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Counter counter point: You can make a gun easily. Look up the looty.
Making guns illegal only keeps them out of the hands of people willing to follow the law. People who want to kill people with guns and commit crime do not care that they are not allowed to have a gun.
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Well, we’ve recently explored the legalization of weed due to the fact that you can just grow it and it’s not that harmful. Other drugs I mean that’s quite a conversation to have but maybe one worth having.
Bombs don’t have a great use in the normal everyday market, but fireworks are used for agriculture and dynamite is used for construction. So they aren’t really illegal, just regulated.
We do have access to poisonous gasses again for agriculture and some for home use for bug extermination again this leans towards regulated not outright illegal.
Outlawing stuff just because we’re scared of it doesn’t make sense. Instead providing people with an education on what their scared of can protect them from someone who wants to use those things against them.
You could break down my garage door with a car or run me down in the street with one but we’re not outlawing vehicles. You know how to operate a vehicle and can see it’s practical uses you’re not scared of them. You don’t need to be afraid of them even though you’re much more statisticly likely to die due to a car then a gun.
Electric cars aren’t better for the environment in our current ecosystem. You might not be burning fuel in your car but you’re burning coal at the power plant. Beyond that all you’ve done is make yourself more dependent on the power grid. If you are one of the very few people with self sufficient electric in your home you can skip this one.
You really have to factor in the refinement and transport of fuel though. And then needing to drive to the pumps and the additional maintenance ICE vehicles
And not all energy is created by burning coal. There are solar, hydro, wind, and nuclear. In fact, only 20% of our energy comes from coal, https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3.
I can’t speak for every state, but California has only one coal plant and an abundance of renewable energy generation. Including what consumers dump back into the grid.
I love our EV, and encourage others to buy one. They aren’t perfect, but it’s about incremental improvements. The next problems to solve is battery improvements, long-term battery resource sustainability, and building a more durable and less polluting tire.
Though yes, California does have the least non-renewable power generation. Can you say the same for other states?
Additional maintenance is negligible when compared to the price of battery replacement.
I don’t think there are many people making trips in their vehicle just for gas. With a gas station on nearly every corner you’re able to easily stop on an existing trip to refuel.
When the power grid fails due to a natural disaster gas power is all you’ve got. With the limited range you have, is it worth the risk to try to drive somewhere for power?
I’m not against hybrids provided you can still get a reasonable amount of mileage off the gas. But like you said, we need massive amounts of improvement on batteries before we’re ready for mass adoption and for EVs to really be a viable replacement option.
You seem to be forgetting that places with socialised health care also have private healthcare and private insurance available so it’s the best of both worlds. Everyone can get treated regardless, but you can also go ‘premium’ if desired.
So I can pay for others healthcare in my taxes and pay for additional healthcare for myself because the “free” healthcare I’m already paying for doesn’t do enough for me? Wouldn’t it just make more since to pay for private “premium” healthcare off the rip?
Nothing is actually free. It all comes out somewhere. I’m a big fan of not relying on others and the government to support me.
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Tipping is dumb, but tipping in Trump propaganda 10x dumb.
10x asshole move, I’d say.
Basically like saying “I think tipping sucks and your boss should be rolling your pay into the meal. So I’m not going to tip you. That said, I’m also going to vote for the party that supports your boss offloading employee pay onto customer tips.”
confused_jackie_chan.jpg
That’s way too complicated for them to understand. I’m not joking. We should all be very afraid of their weaponized stupidity. Idiocracy is here.
Tipping seems to be a cultural thing in the States.
Here in the UK we take the Mr. Pink approach to tipping.
It stopped being a cultural thing decades ago. Now it’s about about companies not paying employees a living wage and America’s right wing constantly blocking legislation that would force employers to pay people enough to have shelter and food.
It actually started as an economic thing too, because businesses during the great depression weren’t able to consistently pay living wages.
It was originally a way to be able to hire black people and not pay them
It started much earlier than that and has roots in racism. https://time.com/5404475/history-tipping-american-restaurants-civil-war/
After the Constitution was amended in the wake of the Civil War, slavery was ended as an institution but those who were freed from bondage were still limited in their choices. Many who did not end up sharecropping worked in menial positions, such as servants, waiters, barbers and railroad porters. These were pretty much the only occupations available to them. For restaurant workers and railroad porters, there was a catch: many employers would not actually pay these workers, under the condition that guests would offer a small tip instead.
During the UK lockdowns, I tipped all the front line workers where I could. That’s it.
I’m not tipping someone as compensation for doing their job, that’s what their employer is for.
I tip for exceptional service. If someone goes above and beyond what’s required of them, I leave a tip. I also tip if I make their lives more difficult that they should have been.
Dealing with our general public, during COVID definitely counts as both. Particularly with the number of people who couldn’t figure out how to wear a mask. At the same time, I also didn’t go out much during the pandemic, mostly due to the whole pandemic thing going on.
What is exceptional service? How is it different from bad service? As an introverted north european I never figured this out myself. For me good service means I don’t need to wait too long for my food/get the check but other than that I want to be left alone. I imagine I would find “good service” quite uncomfortable.
It’s generally context and individual specific. E.g. a bed delivery driver is paid to get it to your door. If they also lug it up the stairs to the loft room, that is exceptional service.
Another might be a restaurant team who deal particularly well with a food allergy. E.g. making specific checks of requirements, and going out of their way to make a dish in a safe manner. Rather than just saying it’s not an option.
Have you noticed all take aways have delivery charges in the UK since Covid? I assume it’s because few of us have cash about anymore so the drivers aren’t getting tipped.
Last time I tried to tip a delivery driver im the UK they said they can’t take it…
Given we pay for delivery though and it’s difficult to see what a driver could do above and beyond that isn’t just ‘doing their job’ that’s probably a good thing, provided they’re getting a decent amount of it.
It’s about how fast it got there for me in the past, which I know isn’t always in their control, but there needs to be some criteria.
But you see, this approach is an international problem on both sides of the tipping argument. Are you against tipping and think the worker should be compensated by their employer? That’s great. Do you believe in this philosophy enough to actually seek out politicians who will make sure employers compensate the workers? All around the world, it seems that nobody cares that much about workers when it’s time to vote. Workers in countries where tipping is not customary earn a crappy salary that does not allow them to live without depending on the kindness of their families. Good luck making yourself independent of your parents on a typical salary a waiter earns in Spain, for example. Workers in the USA where tipping is all the rage don’t do much better. You can work in the retail industry and earn minimum wage, or sometimes slightly higher than minimum wage and live out of your car or live with your parents. You can work at a restaurant and depend on tips and live out of your car. You can be a visiting professor of sociology at whatever university and live out of your car. In Spain, you can have a PhD and ghost write for full professors and live out of your car or you can wait tables and not have a car and live with your parents. I mean, really. There is no difference in the end. Wages from work are low all around the world. They are low in democratic countries because people care more about some other issue and not about the people who bring food to their table at a restaurant, no matter what kind of tipping culture is predominant in that democratic country.
It used to be quite the opposite. Tipping was big in Europe but not in the US.
That changed with Prohibition. When alcohol was banned, there was suddenly a large whole in the bottom line of restaurants across the US. They turned to having a tipped staff to stay open.
Sadly, when it was repealed, tipping stayed. It was since inflated from 10% to 15% to now over 20%.
Some have tried to get rid of it, but sadly it hasn’t worked.
It dates back further than that. It was a great way to not pay recently freed slaves as much as white people during the Jim Crow south.
if you’re wanting to protest those businesses, you might wanna start with not buying from them in the first place.
Not always that easy is it, if you want to go out you have to find a place that advertises their no tipping policy. It’s go and don’t tip or stay at home or else take part in a shit system.
No, see if you go and dont tip, you’re still taking part in the shit system, just with a side of hurtin workers. The owners making just as much money and doesnt need to change what he’s doing.
No.
If employees are earning below the minimum wage then the employer has to pay the difference.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/compliance-assistance/handy-reference-guide-flsa#3
So yeah, if anyone’s feeling guilty about not tipping then don’t. This should be a discussion between employees and their employers. Not customers and employees.
If the waiter is only making minimum wage in the U.S., considering what minimum wage is, that makes me feel sorry for them and even more inclined to give them a tip, because no one should have to survive on minimum wage.
Thing people forget is that the employer will just fire the employee for “lack of performance” or some bullshit.
There are virtually no worker protections in the US, and, as consumers, we need to stop feeding the greedy beasts that run restaurants.
And don’t forget, wage theft totals more than all other theft combined: https://www.epi.org/publication/epidemic-wage-theft-costing-workers-hundreds/
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The problem is that not tipping doesn’t punish the people creating the tipping issue, just making the people who are oppressed by it suffer more.
Disliking tipping is no reason to screw hardworking people over. Tipping is a fact of life, even if you think it’s dumb.
But it doesn’t have to be if the employers pay how they should
Sure but until they do a lot of those people need tips to get by and it’s far from as easy as “just get a different job”
Source: used to be one such person
With unemployment numbers so low right now, this is actually the time to “just get another job”. In the USA, at least.
Have you tried?
What other job do you get when your experience is tipped work? Or do you go to school to take on debt that will set you back for a long time because the education system is shot too.
Until they do? When is that going to be? When US government makes tipping illegal?
Ultimately, we need to tip people in the short term to keep them afloat until we can work with them in the long term to get America to the standard that most of the rest of the world takes, where tipping is a special case scenario only for exceptionally good work, and never to be needed or expected.
It really doesn’t have to be a “fact of life”, and it isn’t in many places, such as Australia and England – nations with very similar degrees of economic prosperity, and very similar cultures, to the USA.
People have tried and failed. But my point is, until that time you have to tip. I don’t care for people that don’t tip while arguing they are doing their server a favor. It is a disingenuous attempt to be cheap. A server’s paycheck should not be held hostage to a a war on tipping culture.
I don’t see them saying they don’t tip, but arguing against the system in place. Which are two separate things.
Or, employers could pay their workers better.
Novel thought, right?
And you think not tipping your server today, before they get those wages, will make that happen?
Sorry, Mr. Pink. Being an asshole to your server does not make you somehow pro-worker.
Yes. By not showing up at all.
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This is a fairly good bellwether to see who’s progressive and who’s a champagne socialist.
I’m always torn on this. I want to tip to help someone earn a living, but if enough of us stopped tipping employees would leave unless they were paid more. It does feel like adding suffering to the wrong people, but if out created change it would be nice eventually
A better solution is to flat out not patronize businesses that do tips
I like eating food though :/
There are all manner of grocery stores that sell that
Because it comes from a history of slavery. Pushing it on to you, the customer, to pay the underpaid employee so the boss man doesn’t have to.
not “could” but “are legally obliged to, by federal law”
I mean, you’re paying them either way. Businesses money for salaries comes from customers. It’s still silly and indirect, but it’s not like you wouldn’t be paying the workers’ salary anyway.
It hides the true cost of the meal and allows both the employee and the employer to avoid taxes on this part of the “salary”
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As a Brit this seems like such a ridiculous attitude to have.
When you go out for food you are paying for:
- Quality ingredients
- The knowledge and skill of someone to take those ingredients and make a nice meal out of them
If you’re dining in you also get:
- A nice place to sit with good lighting and a nice ambiance
- Someone to bring your food
- Someone to clean away your dirty dishes
If you are getting delivery you instead pay for someone to bring it to you.
The food itself is like 40% of what you’re paying for, the rest is just convenience and atmosphere.
That’s where we eventually started getting feezer pizzas instead of take-out. Compared to the pain in the ass of ordering food (assuming the place is even open), it was easier just to throw one in the oven, and way cheaper too.
You’re paying for both.
Without tipping their entirely hourly wage has to come out of what you pay for the meal. Thus the price of your meal will go up to make up for what they used to get in tips.
Or, maybe, the owners of the restaurant make slightly less profit and pay their employees a living wage.
There are a small number of restaurants across the US that actually do pay their servers and other employees reasonable hourly rates, and make it clear to patrons that they don’t accept tips. Prices are still reasonable and customers do continue coming back.
Or, maybe, the owners of the restaurant make slightly less profit and pay their employees a living wage.
And maybe landlord start handing over deeds to the people paying their mortgages. But we’re operating in reality and need to consider things that might happen.
If companies eat the cost of pay increases how will the executives afford that new yacht they’ve been eyeing?
I know it sounds really easy to get all huffy and self-righteous, but 60% of restaurants do not make it past the first year, and 80% go under in five years.
It’s hard out there. If the place isn’t making money, everyone loses their job.
Yeah, but then it shouldn’t really exist as a business in the first place according to the rules of capitalism, should it?
You’re not wrong, but my point is that we’re dealing with laws of math here. You can’t just go “Just accept less profit” when the majority don’t make enough profit to survive. That money has to come from somewhere.
My mom ran a couple restaurants at different times in her life. She’s a high school drop-out who has never had a great job so it isn’t like she’s some high class capitalist. Both restaurants failed within a year or two, and she came out each time quite a bit worse than she went in. The company in charge of the building locked the doors and kept all her stuff in lieu of rent. It’s pretty brutal. She lost all the money she put into it well beyond any money she might have made on the business itself, and she went into debt each time as a result of the failing business as well.
I’d rather have that. Why is responsibility of covering wages shifting to the customer? And in return the blame? Sounds like a situation those in charge love, since instead of them being the bad guy they get to say “what an asshole customer right?” it’s their fault your take home pay is lower today.
Hiding behind the customer going darn then it’s out of my hands. Don’t got money to spare. Then they hop in their expensive car and drive to their expensive home instead of them being the ones to pay a proper wage for their employees.
Sounds like a misleading system all around.
And that is how it works in all other civilised countries. One should think it would be possible to work in the US as well.
Then the menu prices should be raised to pay a livable wage to the staff. If I can’t afford it I’ll eat at home. Don’t lure people in with the promise of one price and then guilt them into subsidizing your payroll off the book.
Tipping culture needs to go away, it’s not the norm elsewhere and it shouldn’t be here.
Yeah, people don’t likes hidden charges or surprise fees. It’s “optional” but not really if you want to be a part of society.
Good. Pay workers more.
In other parts of the world, there is no tipping. This is because it’s expected for the employer to provide the employee a living wage, not statistics and an underground economy.
It’s a terrible practice and ultimately hurts workers. It should be banned simply because it promotes worker tax evasion, which is not what I really care about here, but it’s a good reason to make it illegal. Making it illegal is only way to stop it in the US. It’s absolutely rampant. You pick up donuts At the dunkin store and they ask for a tip now.
Its more complicated than that.
For your average waitress or diner worker, tips are their living wage. But for people at nicer restaurants or who “hustle”, tips can be REALLY good income. This is why there is always so much push back any time some politician says “this is real messed up”. I think it was a somewhat recent story where the restaurant the South Park guys bought got rid of tipping and the wait staff were angry?
But, of course, the wait staff who don’t know how to work a table and the bus boys and the rest of the staff all get screwed over. Because yes, some places pool tips but skimming is 100% a thing and management is never going to stop it so long as they get their cut too.
The reality is that food needs to be more expensive at restaurants so that the profit margins cover living wages. The top salespeople will get screwed, but… they are already screwing over their co-workers so fuck 'em.
But now you have the people who benefit from being tipped getting angry AND the people who “could otherwise not afford to eat out” suddenly angry that the base price includes a living wage rather than the 2 dollar tip they leave on a 30 dollar order being the decider.
All that said: Outside of higher end catered meals in Europe, service at even a halfway decent restaurant in the US is miles ahead. Mostly because the staff knows that is how they get their bonuses. Still doesn’t justify screwing over bussers and low totem pole cooks but…
I’m sorry but I have to take issue with “service is miles ahead”.
American table service is weird. It’s an uncomfortable experience for anyone who isn’t used to it. You can call it a cultural difference but it genuinely gave us a feeling of revulsion - the fake friendliness, the platitudes, the hovering near the table, the constant refilling, the fucking survey mid-meal, the attentiveness barely concealing the determination to extract your money and shove you out and get another mark on the door.
Perhaps because most of these things seem to primarily seek to recreate the experience of a slave owner and their chattel.
Service in Japan and South Korea is better than in American restaurants and you don’t have to bribe the staff to be nice to you. The price on the menu is usually cheaper too.
Also, pooled tips are basically a slush fund for wages since the entire point of tipping is supposed to be to reward good service and if the tip isn’t going directly to the person who provides the service, what’s the point? Ditto for any tip on a service that hasn’t even been performed yet, such as delivery services.
All that said: Outside of higher end catered meals in Europe, service at even a halfway decent restaurant in the US is miles ahead. Mostly because the staff knows that is how they get their bonuses.
If your idea of good service is having a waiter with faked cheer jump at you every five minutes loaded with a jug of ice cubes to check if “everything is great”, then sure, the US style is miles ahead.
If you just want a professional to do his job as unobtrusively as possible, the European way is the one to pick.
Tipping culture does not create better service, have you ever been to Italy? People tip because its the social norm, not because they like the service.
It’s sad how much work has been put into convincing worker to buy this shit. It is not to their benefit. If you would make however much money after tips, you should still expect to make that same amount in a wage if we remove tips. It’s just a hurdle for everyone to jump through so restaurant owners aren’t held accountable to pay their staff. It’s also not uncommon for them to not make up the difference if the staff doesn’t make minimum wage after tips, which they are legally required to do.
Tipping is a racket. If it were in the workers favor, why would their bosses be so in favor of it? If the person who you’re working for is ever in favor of something financial, you should pay attention because you should probably be on the other side. If it makes them more money then it’s likely costing you money
The reality is that, for the people who “make it work”, tipping is a lot closer to being a sales person. You are talking them into buying the more expensive meal option or getting a bottle of champagne or whatever. And you are timing your check-ins just right so it feels like you are attentive rather than forced to interrupt someone the moment they take a bite to see if they like the food. And you know how to find the right tables to focus on because that group look like they have the right combination of money and awkwardness that they’ll tip higher so as to not be “jerks”.
Its pretty much the exact same bullshit that is used to discourage unionization in tech. When you are just starting out, collective bargaining is GOOD. As you get more experienced, you start to be able to negotiate much better terms for yourself… often at the expense of your co-workers. And thus, you become opposed to unionization efforts.
Because if you are a higher end waiter or waitress? You are potentially pulling in a LOT of bank. My ex was a waitress at the fancy French place in the rich people part of town and… she was pulling in low six figures. She ain’t getting paid that after a labor reform. But her co-workers also weren’t getting paid that and neither were the bus boys who cleaned up after “her” customers or the chefs who are implementing The Chef’s visions.
But, because there is an actual clear “bootstraps” route that people semi-regularly follow? Fuck my rights and wage now because I am gonna be rich in a few years and then will regret getting a living wage!
Why do I think you’ve only gone to tourist trap restaurants in Europe? You should look at a guide before planing vacations.
Although it is true that service can be better in the lower end restaurants in the US. After all, one can afford to hire more when they pay them pennies.
it promotes worker tax evasion
this is the only argument I’ll hear in favor of tipping. People should cheat on their taxes until they pay as little as the wealthy.
The thing is, America is culturally really influenctial. Here in Germany we have a wide variety of jobs that typically pay minimum wage. Some are service related, others aren’t. It’s roughly 20% of the workforce.
But we listen to american podcasts, watch your movies, your series and so on.
So waiters tend to get minimum wage + tax free tips, while cashiers just get minimum wage. Granted, tips are more like 10% here. I hate tips being an expectation.
Wouldn’t the whole system make more sense as a commission based wage scale that is tied to the price of the items ordered? A base wage that meets legal requirements added to an incentive tied to a percent of each item sold?
The variable percentage would be tied to how much the waiter sold and what items, which would scale with both the amount of work (on large tables) and the skill of the waiter to help the business move product and give the customer a good experience.
The balance point being selling as much as possible while providing the customer an experience they want to return to.
Any hard selling and under serving keeps people from wanting to come back and hurts the business. Any lack of care in service prevents additional sales that can boost wage earnings and prevents the business from not selling stock before it goes bad.
Discretionary tipping is dumb, even if you are a capitalist. There is a balance that doesn’t stagnate the business or create exploitative labor practices. We just don’t do it because we are a social democracy that has a systemic misunderstanding of when capitalism is good and when it is bad.
It’s similar enough to a real bill for the distributors to be charged under 18 U.S. Code § 475 (Imitating US notes for advertising).
I believe if you were to take this to your bank and tell them that someone tipped you this and you just want to check it it’s counterfeit or real, the FBI would suddenly be involved
US Secret Service is in charge of counterfeiting investigations, not the FBI.
It doesn’t look close enough to a real bill. The person on the counter would probably just say they will get someone involved and then throw it away and do nothing.
It doesn’t look close enough to a real bill for the bank/Secret Service to care about. I’ve seen someone charged with counterfeit money when they had the movie money that literally says “This is not real money, it is for cinematic purposes only” on the back. Cops and DAs can fuck you twice over.
Have they ever charged those churchs who hand out chic tracks on fake folded 50s?
I thought at first that’s what this was - one of those stupid Jesus tracts that look like a $20, because apparently, SaViNg YoUr SoUl Is ThE bEsT tIp Of AlL!1!
Those don’t look enough like real money to be illegal. These do.
It is remarkably close to a real bill. If not for the numbers being obviously wrong, I can imagine someone mistaking this for a real bill.
A year 2024 bill denomination? Doubtful. Courts have long protected the right of parody money as long as it was clear that it’s not real. And making a bill that doesn’t have a dollar amount on it and is clearly political speech would likely be protected.
Yeah but they are leaving it in place of actual money. IF you found a LEO who wanted to fuck the tippers day up it could probably be used as grounds for an arrest because its being used in place of money. Wether a charge would stick or not would entirely depend on the judge.
Kind of like how walking around with tiny baggies full of baby powder is legal, selling them and claiming its coke isnt. If you try to pass something that looks like money off as money…
Except a tip isn’t a contractual transaction, so there’s nothing illegal happening. They just left a clickbaity political flyer. There’s no difference between leaving this and leaving Chick Tracts, other than this one makes you double take before throwing it out.
If they tried to pay for the meal with it, there’d be a legal problem since they’re trying to pass it off as money.
I’m sure a LEO with a friendly judge could duck the tippers day up. But cops “don’t vote Democrat” (Jack Reacher quote), and they can in almost every jurisdiction, just pull you over and beat you up if they want to run your day.
And eiize your car and all your money with no due process.
Because the car “did something illegal” or some other bullshit nonsense that civil asset forfeiture permits.
Nobody but your boss has to give you the pay you deserve
You’re not wrong, but anyone who leaves shit like this or the stupid church dollars as a tip is a special kind of asshole.
Who the fuck is downvoting this?
14 people
You’re not wrong.
But they also didn’t answer the question. They said how many, not who.
Restaurant owners
Servers making bank.
If you can’t afford to tip, you can’t afford to eat out or order delivery. Just because the tip system is a terrible system doesn’t mean you have an excuse to fuck over the victims of it.
Until there’s a national strike on tipping that could lead thousands of tip reliant workers to quit (like the writers strike), be a decent person and have some sympathy. Instead of eating out and not tipping, don’t eat out. The restaurant gets the same amount of money whether you tip or not, I guarantee they don’t give a shit.
I have sympathy for underpaid workers. But I don’t think I’ll change my tipping attitude just because you said such and such. Actually your commands sound a bit condescending.
I wanted to highlight
Instead of eating out and not tipping, don’t eat out. The restaurant gets the same amount of money whether you tip or not, I guarantee they don’t give a shit.
This isn’t a “just said”, it’s a fact. Not tipping isn’t a protest, it’s a self-imposed discount at the expense of the worker. The business owner makes exactly the same money, the only one who suffers is the underpaid worker.
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Did you not read what I said? The restaurant owner is equally enriched whether or not you tip. Tipping is factored into the menu price; if tipping was not expected, the menu price would be higher to cover appropriate wages.
If you disagree with the system, limit your patronage to establishments that don’t utilize tipping and pay appropriate wages. By not tipping, you are exploiting the system at the expense of the worker; I repeat, the restaurant owner is equally enriched, only the worker suffers when you exploit the expectation of a tip to provide yourself a price lower than would be available if the system was not predicted on tipping.
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If by “enjoyment” you mean having someone wait on you at a restaurant, I’m not shaming people for having enjoyment, just for taking it without paying. Same way I’d shame them for any other form of enjoyment at the expense of others.
There are restaurants that explicitly inform their customers that they pay their staff a higher wage and tipping is not expected. If you don’t want to tip and still want your enjoyment, eat at those establishments shame-free.
If you disagree with tipping culture and want to incentivize business owners to pay their workers a thriving wage for their hard work, then stop spending money on establishments that utilize tipping, encourage your friends to do the same, and write the business owners to tell them why. Another shame-free option.
If you go to an establishment where tipping is expected (and menu prices are therefore lower) but choose not to tip, then:
- The business owner benefits by making the same money they would have if you had tipped, no incentive to change
- You benefit from a lower price
- The server works just as hard, but now does not get honesty compensation.
This does not incentive the owner to raise wages. You are exploiting the expectation of a tip that set the low menu prices. If you honestly wanted the server to make a thriving wage, your options are to pay that wage yourself or go to an establishment that does (and consequentially has higher prices to cover this higher wage).
Yes, you should be shamed. There’s no excuse for enjoyment via exploitating others.
Candy being enjoyable doesn’t entitle you to steal it if you can’t afford it. Not agreeing with “candy pricing” culture doesn’t excuse it.
I don’t care if your doctor or your barber or your banker gives you candy for free, that doesn’t entitle you to take it for free from the store. Taking something without paying is theft. Labor is no different. If you can’t afford it, go to a restaurant that doesn’t use it.
“I have sympathy for underpaid workers.”
…but they should feed me while I do nothing to help them, instead I’ll be here actively enriching the people exploiting their labor.
“But I don’t think I’ll change my tipping attitude just because you said such and such.”
I’m sure that sounded cool in concept, but basically all this says is that you find the idea of changing your mind due to dialog silly. How sad.
“Actually your commands sound a bit condescending”
Oh wow, I hope my analysis doesn’t come across like that. You might stop tipping - oh, wait…
All good points. But since tipping is supporting this broken system, and not tipping seems to be worse, what do you suggest then?
I could just not go out, sure. Just stay out of it. If enough people do that, this wil lead to less customers, more employers closing their business, more employers loosing the job they couldn’t afford to quit. I don’t see how that helps either.
So I’m listening. What do you suggest?
If you can’t afford to live without tips, don’t volunteer to become a potential victim of a terrible system.
If it wasn’t so depressing I might find it funny you think people work in bad environments because they want to.
Minimum wage is not a livable wage, I shouldn’t have to tell you this. Your arrogance is genuinely disgusting.
And I find the arrogance of telling people if they can’t afford to tip, they shouldn’t eat out disgusting. If they can afford it and are just being cheap, that’s one thing, but you don’t get to act all morally superior while being arrogant the other direction.
If you can’t afford something you shouldn’t buy it. Just because you don’t agree with the system doesn’t mean you get to ignore it and then justify it by taking a moral high ground.
You know the servers wages are dependent on tips and you choose not to pay them. THAT is the social contract. Whether you agree with it or not.
If you cared about changing the system you’d take steps to change it without screwing the workers. You’re just being cheap.
I tip. But there’s a difference between “I know the system is terrible, but I rely on tips and would really appreciate it if you’re able” and “Don’t go out if you can’t afford to tip.” The second is arrogant and condescending. Not being an asshole goes both ways.
No. It’s not. Don’t go somewhere you can’t afford (including the tip) is not arrogant.
I really should stop going to places that need me to tip. I need to save up my money after my mistakes ruined my life yet again. Im so tired of never being able to make mistakes without nearly losing everything
I see what you mean, but I’m not the one fucking over the employees.
On the short term you are right, but as long as customers keeps tipping, the system works well enough for nothing to change.
The more people stops tipping, the closer we get to change.
And I’m sorry that the change will hurt the employees, but it’s not my battle. And tipping does not support the employees battle, just this days income.
Tell me another way I can support their battle, and I’ll listen.
Right, lemme just go on a hunger strike to should stop the most predatory Capitalists in existence /s
You do know there are many places to get food without table service, right?
Are you incapable of feeding yourself?
That’s actually inaccurate.
You can be charged for theft of service for refusing to tip someone. It’s happened.
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And you would be, again, factually incorrect.
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Narrator: They did not have a source.
Go ahead then, back it up. Share an article or something about it. Hell, share three of the same event.
Then it’s not a tip, it’s wages the customer is expected to pay.
Funny thing is that this guy hates tipping, but they’re going to vote for the candidate and political party that want to keep service salaries so low that tipping is required to live.
If this person really wanted to kill tipping, they should vote for the other party. Those are the folks seriously talking about solutions that would make it unnecessary.
If you try to explain this they’ll just go on a unhinged tangent about how Trump single handedly saved the service industry. That, or something equally stupid.
Yes, let’s not pretend that these are well-researched positions that make sense. They’re identity statements.
Assholes like this love tipping culture. It gives them a feeling of power over people they see as lesser.
I find these types don’t hate tipping, they think servers deserve to beg for scraps. They also just don’t think it should be them doing the tipping and act like what they gave you is more valuable than the money.
These are the same idiots that will go into a store on Christmas to shop and then rant to the cashier that they shouldn’t be open on Christmas. They refuse to have self awareness.
While I do believe the minimum wage is too low and I am wanting it raised, I don’t think raising it will stop restaurants from keeping tipping culture. Unless they implement laws to dissolve tips, it makes no sense financially for restaurants to end tipping. Even landlords are getting in on tipping.
its a cult
That’s kind of insulting to cult leaders bruh. Most cult leaders have some really honed charisma and at least some specific intellectual strengths.
They removed god and placed Trump. Are evangelicals fine with that?
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Good thing they don’t bother reading their sacred text.
Plenty fine. There’s a lot of them even claiming that Trump is literally the Second Coming, or a prophet thereof. I’ve even had one tell me that he and Pence (before they all turned against Pence) were the two prophets of the End Times in Revelations.
The funny part is that they supposedly believe in the Antichrist but don’t realize Trump is closer to that description than the Second Coming.
I’ve even had one tell me that he and Pence were the two prophets of the End Times in Revelations.
In a way they are
I think the Republican party stopped caring about the evangelicals back in 2010 when the Tea Party thing happened. By 2012 their candidate was a Mormon and then we all know what happened in 2016.
Trump is their god emperor
Well he did try starting the space force so maybe that was his attempt at a space marine
Omg I didn’t even notice that. Jfc
Anyone hard rooting for any politician is a moron. All D and R marked politicians are lizards looking to suck your wallet dry and deprive you of free will. These ultra Trump people are are cringey as the baffoons that think Biden is a good president.
Fuck tipping culture. Rather than begging tips from customers, DEMAND it from your employer.
Yes, but sadly the contrary is happening. Restaurant owners now have a sneaky trick to increase tips in order to lower wages: you know those receipts & terminals that have a “suggested tip”? Yeah, those things… they keep increasing. I was handed a PoS terminal in Netherlands (where tipping norms are like a couple euro), and the terminal asked me to tap for how much I want to tip which suggested as much as 25%.
It’s working, too. A recent article described how this trick is causing average tips to increase. So the #warOnCash is part of the problem.
I agree with the sentiment, but I think it’s important to remember that it’s the employers we should be mad at, not the employees.
They’re too dumb to realize that it will have the opposite effect. It won’t work like “omg i got an ad for [CANDIDATE X] instead of $20, gonna vote for him!!”
It has nothing to do with advertising and everything to do with showing dominance. While liberals are too afraid to say this or that because it might hurt someone’s feelings, these right wing lunatics have no problems being very bold and in-your-face about their candidate of choice.
What you’re supposed to do with these and the bible verse ones is at least leave a decent tip to go along with this so the server finds it at the end of their shift with their money. Instead, people just leave these pieces of trash.
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I’m not. This won’t change anyone’s mind one way or the other.
At first I didn’t see any actual evidence that this was connected to Trump, so I figured everyone here was just assuming it was Trump based on how shitty this practice is. I definitely assumed the same.
(If you zoom wayyyy in his name is there, though.)
Been a thing for a long time actually. Since before his cult. Religious fucks leave fake bills with Bible versus on them.
Worked in a resort area and some big church group showed up and tipped using money like that. Like a party of 20 people type group.
Everyone started calling around to establishment saying if you get a group of 20 and they all look like Jesus folk tell them to leave.
Cult people using the cult as an excuse/justification to behave like selfish assholes. A tale as old as time.
When are the rest of us going to get sick of this petulant bullshit?
Trumpism isn’t a cult, it’s a mainstream religion. Unless you want to make the argument that Trumpism is a sect of Christianity devoted to worshipping the Antichrist
tomato tomato
Wow, this is worthless lol Not tipping is better than this, at least not tipping can’t disappoint you more than this can
